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Feedback: Enduring Confrontation Test (RB)


Ok, it's allready better than standard RB (wich is actually broken) but there really needs to be a lot more of Ground Targets, currently most of the maps just seems to be empty. Convoys must respawn quicker, bombers AI too, there must not be only 1 little frontline on the map but like 3 or 4 main battle theaters to avoid every player in the game will stack and furball at the same place, just over the people trying to play the objectives on the ground.

 

It's the most important thing, kill the furball, dispatch objectives and targets all over the map, donc let people stack as sheeps at the same place and start doing what they'd do in AB : YOLO turnfights and head-ons.

 

EC should take more inspiration from MOBA games like DOTA 2 :

 

 

  • "Lanes" as the main battle theaters where ground units try to push or defend depending of the situation, tanks and light vehicles from each team avancing and fighting each other while they'll find Pillboxes on their way, increasing ennemy team's defenses.
  • "River", a transversal lane used by everybody most of time to switch to their lane to another one quickly, of course the natural theater of random solo or teamfights.
  • "Jungle", spaces between lanes where you'll randomly find events, like lost units or convoys tryiing to join a lane to help it. You'll have naturally less chances to meet ennemies, but lone wolves still will roam around there to catch you while you think you're safely farming your spawnpoints.

This is what looks like a Dota map :

 

mini_543039steamworkshopwebuploadpreview

 

 

Add bases all around the map, AI bombers randomly attacking one of the lanes or airfields, etc... Give it a realistic touch to avoid giving a too strong MOBA's touch and you got your blockbuster, world of tanks + League of legends + War Thunder = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Edited by Leandrys
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didnt like the sp system you should do what the firet test did, which was where you waited long enough you could use a plane freely
nothing sucks more than getting the sp spawning realiseing you set gun convergence wrong jing out to fix that only to realise you cant spawn cause sp
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I might be redundant, but I didn't feel like skimming through the previous pages. And what is redundant might also be critical then.

 

1) SP + timer + shared timer across same BR = over kill. I do understand that the goal is for variety, but that is too much. You need to spawn in a plane, get some SP, finally take a plane with a higher BR, get shot shortly after take-off, and you have a 40 min timer. You got plenty of SP left ? Cool, but too bad, half of your planes are "grounded" because they share the same timer.

I don't mind SP + timer, or SP + Shared timer, but the 3-combo is too much. That's like forcing the team to play with low plane, and making higher BR plane over defensive to keep the plane on the air. That kills the leftover of teamplay and help you could get, because high BR plane will never do anything without a safety area being large enough so they won't die and got a 45min timer for nothing.

 

2) AI event is random are rare. I actually saw a few of them in the beginning of EC, and then the frequency reduced to almost 0 AI event. Why advertising AI new mechanics, when in fact there is no AI in the game ?

The only "mission" I ever saw more than once was "bomb enemy base at XX". That's not really different from the usual.

 

3) Reward for bombing is ridiculously low, especially for a bomber that need to climb for 20 minutes before crusing to the objective, and being intercpeted by roamer, flying at 6'000m within your line, stalking bombers. That's even worse than regular RB mission, where the bomber at least could reach the target more or less. During this time, you would have done 2-5 kills in a fighter, and in the meanwhile your lovely "trip" in your bomber was rewarded with... nothing.

 

4) Bombing location is so close to enemy airfield, and so deep within enemy line, that I wonder why would someone bother with objectives, when a AF bombing run gives twice as much, and maybe a fighter reloading kill.

 

5) No vision, at any time, of GF. An attacker must fly low (and be an easy prey to anything) in order to maybe identify a target and maybe get a GF kill with the 5s delay on the bombs. If you really want to make it that hard for attacker, in a game that don't know what cover and air superiority mean, just remove them. Why forcing player to fly a plane that will be butchered ??

 

3-4-5 makes me wonder if that is really an EC with objective, or just a "100" team dead match with 150'000 domination points instead of 100 kills...

 

On the bright side, climbers and pilots flying with energy have a lot of fun, because the permanent spawn prevent you to be "the last sideclimber alive", alone vs 12, so you can actually use some planes relying on positining way more often than RB, and that make EC very appealing.

 

And I also like the timer being the same for everyone. God player getting timer reduction was rewarding for the good player, but that was also a problem because that was snowballing, and the winning team was also putting high BR planes on the line, while the loosing team struggled. Current syste, yet not rewarding for good player, prevent such imbalance and that is good.

Edited by Rapitor
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The rewards for individual actions should be altered to not make things such a massive free for all.

Bombers have some use due to map size allowing them to climb to proper alts after takeoff and thus avoid the airbase flak (it IS much less accurate the higher you go thank god), but unless you get the Ruhr or Stalingrad maps attackers are (almost) completely useless. Killing ground units at the front has a very small effect on enemy ticket counts but enemies more or less will always kill that attacker even when they are barely affecting anything.

AI scouts and Bombers do not spawn often enough. There should pretty much always be one group of these on each team as long as there is a minibase to bomb. Stock or partly upgraded planes need something to kill to upgrade themselves.

More ground targets spread over the map, some mobile like tanks and some stationary like heavy pillboxes should be there, its so attackers and tactical bombers don't get herded into kill zones.
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It's been suggested a million times already but I will go ahead and do it again from a little different angle. The only thing that is going to change EC from a non stop TDM over one team air base. Is ground targets, convoys, pill boxes and a front line with several theaters of conflict. I for one also believe that kills shouldn't even matter or even be tracked. Make it very obvious and noticeable how taking out that bombing point, tank convoy, etc. effects the battle. You have to give the attackers something to attack, this will pull those fighters from the furball to go seeking easy prey i.e. slow low attackers. Eliminate the impact of kills on the scoreboard and all of a sudden those bombing points, allied attackers and bombers become very important. I don't really think most people want a non stop arcade furball. And I honestly believe even the ones that do will grow bored quickly it's kinda their nature. This is the only way this game mode will ever be the dynamic battle it was touted as.

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its faaaarrr better than previous EC it almost perfect


Now the enternal deathmatch that gradually changes location over the field needs to go. NOW.
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Well, I have a different feeling with this new EC

  • The airfields are unprotected. AAAs are too weak and sometimes don't do anything. I survived 3 direct hit with my stock P-51 on Sicily. while tha Doras raped our airfield too.
  • Rewards (SP) for bombers are too low. Dropped 20x500lbs to enemy airfield and I got ~50 SP only. Take off, climb and fly to the enemy airfield and return to base IN SAFE takes more than 1 hour. Complete the objectives, spend lots of time and rewarded with few spawn points... While the fighters take a poo on the objectives, kill everything what they find and get tons of SP. This is unbalanced.
  • Spotting distance is TOO BIG. I spotted the enemy from 33km. 33km! Reduce this distance to the regular 8km would be better. It's force the team to communication if they see the enemy. Or the best option in my opinion: remove the enemy markers like in RB Tank Battles. Aerial fights in RB Tank Battles are awesome. You can easily escape from you enemy if they can't follow you with his eyes. And vica-versa. You can easily attack your enemies if they don't spot you. This option will be a great help for bombers and attackers. So reduce or remove the spotting system!

Without these things the RB EC is really fun and I will play with it next time too.

:salute:

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While it has its flaws, current EC is a lovely game mode and far better, imo, than regular EC. 

The main difference is the immersion. Playing such long games with different planes, team up with mates during entire hours is absolutely wonderful.

However, i'd like to quote the previous poster :
 

Well, I have a different feeling with this new EC

  • The airfields are unprotected. AAAs are too weak and sometimes don't do anything. I survived 3 direct hit with my stock P-51 on Sicily. while tha Doras **** our airfield too.
  • Rewards (SP) for bombers are too low. Dropped 20x500lbs to enemy airfield and I got ~50 SP only. Take off, climb and fly to the enemy airfield and return to base IN SAFE takes more than 1 hour. Complete the objectives, spend lots of time and rewarded with few spawn points... While the fighters take a poo on the objectives, kill everything what they find and get tons of SP. This is unbalanced.
  • Spotting distance is TOO BIG. I spotted the enemy from 33km. 33km! Reduce this distance to the regular 8km would be better. It's force the team to communication if they see the enemy. Or the best option in my opinion: remove the enemy markers like in RB Tank Battles. Aerial fights in RB Tank Battles are awesome. You can easily escape from you enemy if they can't follow you with his eyes. And vica-versa. You can easily attack your enemies if they don't spot you. This option will be a great help for bombers and attackers. So reduce or remove the spotting system!

Without these things the RB EC is really fun and I will play with it next time too.

:salute:

I agree with all these points, really. 

I'd like to add, as was said by others before me :
 

  • More ground targets (Stalingrad is fine but can be improved) : Maybe trains, factories, etc (in the future, it needs time to develop I can imagine) but we can always have tank bataillons moving, fortified lines with pillboxes and artillery, things that already exists, you just have to put them even in a random disposition, it'll be better than nothing.
  • More AI events. Fighting a bomber formation is one of the best things in this game, especially if thoses bombers can impact the game outcome ! I never had a ping superior to 50ms, and my laptop is rather lame but optimisation is better than regular gamemodes, so why not add more and more AI planes and events ?
  • The maps are big, and pretty awesome. But, they even seem a little too Big. No way to cover the entire map to counter sneaking bombers, and if I cover a bomber no one will try to climb and attack us because we're too far. Everythings seems rather empty. I'd love to see something like 40-50 players on each side on these maps, allowing more formation fighting and temporary teams builts.
  • I quite like the SP system, and understand the need of a timer (without, a good player could play top-tier planes the entire game), but like we said since several EC tests, REMOVE THE LINK BETWEEN THE PLANES OF SAME BR for the timer ! We have SP limiting us, and a relatively long timer, so let us play different planes at, say, 4.7 BR if our deck wants it !
  • Do someone even read this forum ? The firebrand problem for 4.7 Britain ? It can be easily tweaked by allowing 4.3 planes (or even lower, i can't understand why someone couldn't bring a 3.7 P47 in the top tier EC. What's the logic in that ?)
  • The AFK kicker. It is needed, yes, but FIX IT GAIJIN ! Firstly, 50s is too short, i'd like to pee sometimes, 2mn seems fair. And MAKE IT STOP when we actually launch our plane !

By far, historical EC was better. Stalingrad and Ruhr were quite balanced, and right now stalingrad is 1942(ger) vs 1945(soviet) because of the BR nonsense, and is more like "10P47+some 109/190" VS "10P47 + some spaceyak9OP" It literaly KILLS the immersion, which, for me, is the major point of EC ! Dang, in japan VS URSS, a japan player can get a kill only when a soviet is gentle enough to turnfight. Trying to survive post-war planes in a zero is not really fun...

Why can't you let the test running constantly, like it is for Sim ? While derping on the ingame chat, we can clearly see that only a few people play EC (mainly those interested in it, the same people who want to improve the gamemode and give some feedback). Let's roll the nations and BR ranges, and the maps, i'll be glad to give my Feedback for every different game ! Because if not, I'll do what I did the last 6 month, not even bother to launch the game and wait for the next EC.

Sorry for my not-perfect english, and see you ingame !

Edited by marechalDAMIEN
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The sad truth is that if this mode was available all the time then everyone would progress too fast and thus not feel any need to spend money.

By spamming this mode I unlocked a Tier 5 jet in four days, when my first tier 5 took roughly a month to unlock.

Tier 5 EC needs to become a thing, but if it was made solely from BR 6.7 to 9.0, the 9.0s would literally own the place and nobody would be able to or want to use anything else. Thus there would need to be one for 6.7-8.0 and one for 9.0s only.

All maps need more ground targets, such as light and heavy pillboxes. There needs to be a full naval EC map for US vs Japan.
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So, here we are again, 3 days and that´s it. This is absolutely unsatisfying. And why the heck did you give us only 2 BR brackets? What´s wrong with you? Is it some kind of weird joke to always do the opposite of what your customers want? Giving the Sim ppl BR based EC permanently and for RB historical for a few days only? The current RB air is a total desaster, it´s boring and no challenge at all, no new maps, no new content for at least 2 years now. And then, for once in a long while, you finally come up with a good gamemode and then you mess it up.

 

8 tests in a row and where´s the improvement? I have to stop now, or i´ll kick in my screen.  :bomber:  

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So, here we are again, 3 days and that´s it. This is absolutely unsatisfying. And why the heck did you give us only 2 BR brackets? What´s wrong with you? Is it some kind of weird joke to always do the opposite of what your customers want? Giving the Sim ppl BR based EC permanently and for RB historical for a few days only? The current RB air is a total desaster, it´s boring and no challenge at all, no new maps, no new content for at least 2 years now. And then, for once in a long while, you finally come up with a good gamemode and then you mess it up.

8 tests in a row and where´s the improvement? I have to stop now, or i´ll kick in my screen. :bomber:


Compared to normal RB:
+ Longer matches so there is less emphasis on rushing in like idiots
- Ground Attack Planes have almost no use even on maps with a lot of potential targets like Stalingrad. Convoys are rare to nonexistent and it seems that they always appear near an enemy airfield or several fighters are camping above it waiting for assaulters to come near and get slaughtered.
- Several maps are good in the idea but badly implemented; no EC map should have bright sunlight placing an artificial disadvantage on one team. Several maps are also lacking ground units to destroy, rendering ground attack planes completely useless.
+ The RP Bonus makes ground attacking (when on a map with a lot of potential targets) and bombing actually worth the time involved. One full payload from a Do217 equals 3k RP. Killing just 7-8 AI ground units nets the same amount of RP.
+ The presence of AI bombers and scout planes places less emphasis on killing other players, but these and waves of AI assaulters need to appear a lot more often. At any one time there should be either a group of assaulters or bombers to destroy. This is so people can actually do something in stock planes to spade them and make them useful.
- Not enough variety of ground targets to kill; where are the light tanks, heavy tanks, machine guns, light pillboxes, heavy pillboxes, and AI ships?
- Recon planes are still bugged at times and never leave the edge of the map, rendering them unkillable and constantly having a "mission objective failed" message appear on screen.
- With only 16v16 matches, the maps feel almost too large. Why not have 2-4 AI "Players" for every actual human player in game to add a sense of scale to each fight and give stock planes something they can actually attempt to kill? But if this gets added please fix the bug where in the late stage of matches they spawn in but never actually take off (I had a match where 8 of them were sitting on one airstrip and B29s were farming them for easy rp).
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Can someone explain to me why the german side has more p47 than the entire allied team ? All their players are in a p47. What s happening ?

 

 

German P-47 vs American A6M

 

It's pretty much all I see in SB EC these days around this BR range.  What makes me laugh about it is that you'll never see Japanese and Americans on the same team.  You won't even see Japanese and Germans on the same team.

 

Because, you know, "realism".

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German P-47 vs American A6M

It's pretty much all I see in SB EC these days around this BR range. What makes me laugh about it is that you'll never see Japanese and Americans on the same team. You won't even see Japanese and Germans on the same team.

Because, you know, "realism".


Another reason people use captured premiums so much is because the economy for Sim SB is broken. You pay a flyout cost AND the repair bill.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd like to know that too, when will we have it, or will we ever?

 

I tried getting back to RB but just doesn't give me anything anymore. I need hundreds of games more for my first jet, and RB random battles just is starting getting repetetive, there is no meta goal. EC was a good change of things, and brought some excitement back to the game. Still can't bear myself to keep playing random battles just for the fun of it, especially not since "improved" battle rating. The decision to move EC to "look-through -a -cardboard -box vision and spot the dots" sim mode which has way less popularity was one of the weirdest decisions to date by Gaijjin.

 

The elitistic propeller-head community love it I imagine, and I might too if I had a joystick or something, but us casual arcade-refusing RB players are left out from the fun. And I think we are many, since RB has been the most popular mode amongst players for years. Most have switched to tanks I think and I understand them.

 

As I said before, without EC this game has little to offer RB pilots nowadays imho.

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I'd like to know that too, when will we have it, or will we ever?

I tried getting back to RB but just doesn't give me anything anymore. I need hundreds of games more for my first jet, and RB random battles just is starting getting repetetive, there is no meta goal. EC was a good change of things, and brought some excitement back to the game. Still can't bear myself to keep playing random battles just for the fun of it, especially not since "improved" battle rating. The decision to move EC to "look-through -a -cardboard -box vision and spot the dots" sim mode which has way less popularity was one of the weirdest decisions to date by Gaijjin.

The elitistic propeller-head community love it I imagine, and I might too if I had a joystick or something, but us casual arcade-refusing RB players are left out from the fun. And I think we are many, since RB has been the most popular mode amongst players for years. Most have switched to tanks I think and I understand them.

As I said before, without EC this game has little to offer RB pilots nowadays imho.


In the meantime I grind out trees using fighters in RB and Bombers in Sim EC.
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Lol, they give FRB players another session of Ec while they do not want it for the most of them, meanwhile, most of RB players want it, and they have nothing.

"Quality decision making".

It can be a "good decision" from their POV as they never read the forums and do not care at all about the feedback brought by the CMs.
A company without market analysis and consumer wishes gathering. New form of marketing perhaps ?

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