O-I: Japan's Super Heavy Tank

[Zarosun 106]

These documents are false then?

are those available on the site of finemolds.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Zarosun

[BadOpinionHaver 2,077]

20 minutes ago, Zarosun said:

These documents are false then?

are those available on the site of finemolds.

 

Reveal hidden contents

 

The documents are obviously credible, it's just the idea that the O-I was completed in its entirety that is dubious.

 

Have those documents even been released to the general public? AFAIK finemolds has them under lock and key

[AnimeThighs 2,730]

2 hours ago, watch_your_fire said:

The documents are obviously credible, it's just the idea that the O-I was completed in its entirety that is dubious.

No one here is claiming that it was ever fully completed. The O-I had both it's hull and turret completed, but they were never combined, but that shouldn't disqualify it from the game. As I pointed out before, that is still more progress than the Rad90 which never had a designated turret and only had a random unused Leopard prototype turret that can't even rotate slapped on purely for display purposes.

Edited April 14, 2021 by AnimeThighs

[BadOpinionHaver 2,077]

1 hour ago, AnimeThighs said:

No one here is claiming that it was ever fully completed. The O-I had both it's hull and turret completed, but they were never combined, but that shouldn't disqualify it from the game. As I pointed out before, that is still more progress than the Rad90 which never had a designated turret and only had a random unused Leopard prototype turret that can't even rotate slapped on purely for display purposes.

I was equally against the introduction of the Rad90, but I see your point, there may be precedent for the O-I being added.

 

I just hope Gaijin contacts FineMolds for actual sources if they do add it, because we don't want a repeat of the Ho-Ri implementation, where it ends up with double the armour and double the horsepower due to the forgery of blueprints by you-know-who.

Edited April 14, 2021 by watch_your_fire

[_qaz_ 667]

It's a little weird to refer to a vehicle that was prototyped in some capacity as "100% fantasy"..

 

The main point of contention with this vehicle is about the detailed layout of defensive armour plates, which were not equipped to the prototype and have only been vaguely explained by engineers involved. It's an old argument that cannot be completely solved with the available information. So it is somewhat understandable that this vehicle was never introduced, although there are similarly approximated vehicles in game I would say.

[BadOpinionHaver 2,077]

2 hours ago, _qaz_ said:

It's a little weird to refer to a vehicle that was prototyped in some capacity as "100% fantasy"..

You misunderstand me.

 

The O-I was real. I'm arguing Mai Waffentrager's O-I is fantasy. If this thread had been made by anyone else, I wouldn't have felt the need to reply.

 

I apologize for derailing the thread, but I stand by what I said. Mai is attempting to extrapolate and modify the few sources that exist on the O-I in order to push it into the realm of fantasy, and if nothing else, I just hope people realize what his goals are, so that we don't repeat history.

 

[Noveos_Republic 502]

 

On 14/04/2021 at 04:24, watch_your_fire said:

You misunderstand me.

 

The O-I was real. I'm arguing Mai Waffentrager's O-I is fantasy. If this thread had been made by anyone else, I wouldn't have felt the need to reply.

 

I apologize for derailing the thread, but I stand by what I said. Mai is attempting to extrapolate and modify the few sources that exist on the O-I in order to push it into the realm of fantasy, and if nothing else, I just hope people realize what his goals are, so that we don't repeat history.

 

I'm honestly confused at this point regarding Mai's credibility. I'm inclined to believe her, given her incredible work for the Japanese TT, but the amount of criticism she gets seems to be quite significant. At least, regarding the Ho-Ri, @Mai_Waffentrager was under some sort of NDA with Gaijin-meaning she had to go with Gaijin's ahistorical decisions regarding the Production version. As for the O-I, I'm honestly amazed at the amount of confusion regarding the vehicle. I don't even know what was actually intended at this point.

 

(also psa, you can criticize Mai all you want, but Jagdika is a rather unscrupulous person, resorting to some rather distasteful slurs)

[BadOpinionHaver 2,077]

27 minutes ago, Noveos_Republic said:

 

I'm honestly confused at this point regarding Mai's credibility. I'm inclined to believe her, given her incredible work for the Japanese TT, but the amount of criticism she gets seems to be quite significant. At least, regarding the Ho-Ri, @Mai_Waffentrager was under some sort of NDA with Gaijin-meaning she had to go with Gaijin's ahistorical decisions regarding the Production version. As for the O-I, I'm honestly amazed at the amount of confusion regarding the vehicle. I don't even know what was actually intended at this point.

 

(also psa, you can criticize Mai all you want, but Jagdika is a rather unscrupulous person, resorting to some rather distasteful slurs)

Gaijin isn't the one who photoshopped the fake Ho-Ri with a sloped UFP, that was Mai.

 

She's built a reputation, I'll say that much. She's been run off the SturgeonsHouse for forging documents as I already posted

She left the WOT forums years ago (despite being super active there) again after being called out

She left her own blog (and deleted some posts there) after people started to realize how far she 'extrapolates' the truth until it's pure fantasy

And there's the whole Ho-Ri fiasco as David Bowie pointed out.

 

I can't prove that she's lying about the O-I because I know basically nothing about it, but if history is any indication I wouldn't take anything she says at face value. In fact, you could probably cut any armor values she gives in half and they'd still be overperforming.

 

As for Jagdika's choice of pronouns, that's a rabbit hole that goes back almost a decade and I think it's best if we just ignore it. I don't condone it, if that's what you're asking.

 

[_David_Bowie_ 1,535]

19 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

Gaijin isn't the one who photoshopped the fake Ho-Ri with a sloped UFP, that was Mai.

 

She's built a reputation, I'll say that much. She's been run off the SturgeonsHouse for forging documents as I already posted

She left the WOT forums years ago (despite being super active there) again after being called out

She left her own blog (and deleted some posts there) after people started to realize how far she 'extrapolates' the truth until it's pure fantasy

And there's the whole Ho-Ri fiasco as David Bowie pointed out.

 

I can't prove that she's lying about the O-I because I know basically nothing about it, but if history is any indication I wouldn't take anything she says at face value. In fact, you could probably cut any armor values she gives in half and they'd still be overperforming.

 

As for Jagdika's choice of pronouns, that's a rabbit hole that goes back almost a decade and I think it's best if we just ignore it. I don't condone it, if that's what you're asking.

 

Don't forget Type 87 SPAAG.

 

Anyway, I'm tired of his photoshopping. many data(book, website, etc..) is so polluted that it's hard to find real source.

[Noveos_Republic 502]

Are you talking about this?

 

Is this image fake? I read somewhere (other then on Mai's post) that this was some sort of model intended for one of the versions of the Ho-Ri.

[_David_Bowie_ 1,535]

12 minutes ago, Noveos_Republic said:

Are you talking about this?

 

Is this image fake? I read somewhere (other then on Mai's post) that this was some sort of model intended for one of the versions of the Ho-Ri.

The image is a photo of the mockup. The actual model was not designed like that.

 

He edited the blueprints from the tank designer Tomio Hara's book based on that photo.

Spoiler

Real drawing from Tomio Hara's book

 

Mai's fake drawing

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by _David_Bowie_

[aizenns 3,587]

31 minutes ago, Noveos_Republic said:

 

 

About actual Ho-Ri project, this suggestion may be help for you.

I posted several reliable historical references of Ho-Ri by help of other Japanese players to there.

About Mai’s “Ho-Ri III”

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/413234-new-experimental-gun-tank-ko-ho-ri-japanese-jagdtiger/&do=findComment&comment=7650245