sabaton_

Targeting and Rangefinding, how much do they help?

I always upgrade the crew skills "repair" and vitality, because I didn't consider the rest important at all, now I'm thinking about targeting and rangefinding, since I have enough RP points, should I increase them too? shoul I spend some eagles? do they help at all? what's your experience about those skills?

:dntknw:

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IIRC they just increase the overall accuracy of the gun so I don't see why not in doing it.

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I believe the targeting skill is pretty important since it increases your turret rotation speed, which can be very important. Rangefinding on the otherhand is seemingly less important. It might make your shots deviate a little bit less in the vertical, but I'm not sure.

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Rangefinding? No

 

Targeting? Yes

gY9KAMo.png

This crude MSPaint sketch tells you how your gunner will move gun with increased skill

 

tl;dr - Moves gun vertically and Horizontally

Edited by Der_Schumacher
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When in hanger view select "Crew Info".

 

Hover over various heading to see the actual improvements you get.

 

Based on play style target skills that specifically help. If you like to play tanks up close at the objective then prioritize reload and repair skills. If you like to snipe at long range then improving detection range and accuracy should come first.

 

When selecting vehicle crew slots always put your sniper in the same slot. No point improving slot one with detection and accuracy and then unlocking a good sniper vehicle and putting it in slot two.

 

Cheers Fox.

 

 

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Rangefinding? No

 

Targeting? Yes

gY9KAMo.png

This crude MSPaint sketch tells you how your gunner will move gun with increased skill

 

tl;dr - Moves gun vertically and Horizontally

Really great explanation, thank you!

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In all modes, whilst you as the player lay your gun onto the target via the interface, all you are really doing is playing the commander and assigning the target to your gunner in game abstract terms. You're not the one actually aiming, your crew is. So improving the mods, and crew skills actually allows the crew to place shots on target where you want them with relative consistency. Range to target is a very important variable here so the closer you are the easier it is to hit, but if you fire at ranges 500m+ you will really see the difference.

Do a comparison between a good crew and a poor crew on tanks with all modules and no modules researched. You should be able to see the dispersion between shots quite clearly. Just make sure you don't change your POA between shots.


Rangefinding? No

 

Targeting? Yes

gY9KAMo.png

This crude MSPaint sketch tells you how your gunner will move gun with increased skill

 

tl;dr - Moves gun vertically and Horizontally

This is actually incorrect, what you've illustrated here is rangefinding.

 

Targetting is about the accuracy and consistency of shots at the POI, assuming you're aiming and not just "hip shooting" at the centre of the seen mass.

 

Rangefinding as you've indicated above is actually working out the range to target correctly so that your shots actually hit the target and not overshoot or drop short.

Edited by Raf1307

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In all modes, whilst you as the player lay your gun onto the target via the interface, all you are really doing is playing the commander and assigning the target to your gunner in game abstract terms. You're not the one actually aiming, your crew is. So improving the mods, and crew skills actually allows the crew to place shots on target where you want them with relative consistency. Range to target is a very important variable here so the closer you are the easier it is to hit, but if you fire at ranges 500m+ you will really see the difference.

Do a comparison between a good crew and a poor crew on tanks with all modules and no modules researched. You should be able to see the dispersion between shots quite clearly. Just make sure you don't change your POA between shots.


This is actually incorrect, what you've illustrated here is rangefinding.

 

Targetting is about the accuracy and consistency of shots at the POI, assuming you're aiming and not just "hip shooting" at the centre of the seen mass.

 

Rangefinding as you've indicated above is actually working out the range to target correctly so that your shots actually hit the target and not overshoot or drop short.

 

65CPjjD.jpg

 

I'm actually correct. That crude MSPaint drawing demonstrates how investing in the targeting skill helps move your gun

 

AKA: How well the gun follows your cursor when you move it diagonally

 

Rangefinding is pressing the "rangefinder" button and then getting an estimated range. This is meaningless in AB, and serves only as a "Am I on shot?" in RB. Increasing Rangefinding merely gives you a better estimated range

Edited by Der_Schumacher
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What is the "rangefinder" button?
Does every tank has a "rangefinder"?


You'll have to manually bind a key. Every tank has a "rangefinder" - but it takes a while to estimate a range.

Late T4/early T5 tanks have rangefinder upgrades...which basically take less time to use the rangefinder
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You'll have to manually bind a key. Every tank has a "rangefinder" - but it takes a while to estimate a range.

Late T4/early T5 tanks have rangefinder upgrades...which basically take less time to use the rangefinder

That's mode-dependent, no?

 

AFAIK rangefinder is available for all vehicles only in Arcade and in AB & RB Test Drive, plus on certain high tier vehicles (I think Panther 2 is one of the earliest where it's implemented)as a mod, but then works also in SB.

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That's mode-dependent, no?

AFAIK rangefinder is available for all vehicles only in Arcade and in AB & RB Test Drive, plus on certain high tier vehicles (I think Panther 2 is one of the earliest where it's implemented)as a mod, but then works also in SB.

Haven't checked that fully actually. My KT (H) can use rangefinder RB games, but has no rangefinder upgrade. As far as the germans I have with rangefinder upgrades -it seemingly gives you a range about a few seconds faster

I don't know, to be honest, how many tanks can use the rangefinder in RB/SB

I actually find it faster to simply range myself :P Edited by Der_Schumacher

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On 1/18/2016 at 0:20 AM, Raf1307 said:

...You're not the one actually aiming, your crew is. So improving the mods, and crew skills actually allows the crew to place shots on target where you want them with relative consistency...

If i aim to 500 metters, using a very skilled crew, my gunner will send the shell to my enemy weak spot?

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On 12/12/2016 at 1:34 PM, Tetsui_Ja said:

If i aim to 500 metters, using a very skilled crew, my gunner will send the shell to my enemy weak spot?

Nope. The gunner will send the shell right where you aimed it. Targeting helps with that, as well as some of the mods. You'll be able to hit the same spot each time you fire. Or at least closer to it.

 

As for rangefinders, all tanks have them in RB. All the skill does is make the estimate it gives you more accurate.

On 1/16/2016 at 8:08 AM, *Maj_Fox said:

When in hanger view select "Crew Info".

 

Hover over various heading to see the actual improvements you get.

 

 

 

Basically do this if you want to know exactly what effect a crew skill has.

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So its me that i have to aim. If i have good ttained crew 100% commander, 100% targeting, 100% rangefinding is there big diference if i have qualifications (+30%) or not when sniping?

Edited by Tetsui_Ja

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On 12/16/2016 at 10:13 AM, Tetsui_Ja said:

So its me that i have to aim. If i have good ttained crew 100% commander, 100% targeting, 100% rangefinding is there big diference if i have qualifications (+30%) or not when sniping?

 

You are the primary input as the "commander" of the vehicle. Each mode is a little different. In AB you just determine the point of aim, and your crew does the rest. In RB and SB you have to determine not only the point of aim, but also the range that you think the enemy is at. You can also set some of the tank controls to manual so as to remove the emphasis of your driver's driving skill as well. Your driver's driving skill determines how quickly the driver responds to your WSAD commands by changing gears or braking. If you set the gear change to manual you'll note a reasonable performance change in your vehicle maneouvre since you control the inputs directly.

 

Nevertheless, when you provide an input, the crew uses "their skill" to meet your input command. So in the case of targetting and range finding, they can still miss the POA or drop a round short when you fire. IOT test this go into the test drive and fire a few times at a distant tank. You will see the level of dispersion with every shot which will vary relative to the crew skill.

 

To re-emphasise the point - the crew executes on your inputs IAW their skill. Here is the list of skills using a lv140 crew to give you the max stats. You can also check the interface directly to see what the stat is based on your crews current rating.

 

The other important variable to note here are the modules for your vehicle. Check the stats on those for traverse, elevation and gun dispersion %'s - some of them are quite large.

 

 

Edited by Raf1307
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20 hours ago, Raf1307 said:

...So in the case of targetting and range finding, they can still miss the POA or drop a round short when you fire...

 

So its an unfair game-play as long as we dont pay for golden eagles to get 100% crew skills instead of 80%, otherwise we must play the same tank for a loooong time.
But answer to me plz, do qualifications (+30%) a big difference?

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On 12/19/2016 at 4:48 AM, Tetsui_Ja said:

 

So its an unfair game-play as long as we dont pay for golden eagles to get 100% crew skills instead of 80%, otherwise we must play the same tank for a loooong time.
But answer to me plz, do qualifications (+30%) a big difference?

 

There is nothing unfair about this, its a free to play game, and the devs make money by allowing you to spend GE on your crew if you chose.

 

Furthermore, you don't have to play the same tank, this is not WOT, remember the crew skills are associated with the garage and you assign whichever tank or plane you want to it. The other benefit of this is that if you hit max on your tank skills then the accumulated XP can be transferred into your pilots skills or vice versa.

 

30% in my view is significant, and to give you a quantitative example; a PzIV J has a base traverse of 4.9 deg/sec, with a max targeting skill the gunner can traverse it in 7.1 deg/sec.

 

That's a significant combat boost. The same applies to laying the gun onto target once you're in gunner view. The speed of gun traverse and elevation is also modified by the same amount as the skill component.

N.B. the vehicle modules also have a very significant contribution here.

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I play 2 years now and now i realize that is another "pay to win" bussines model. Another think im thiking is why Gaijin put me almost always with the looser team. How it is possible to loose all fights again and again, all day every day for 2 years, even if i kill 8 or 10 enemies alone.
My teamates plays not smarter than AI's, they running directly at the point and be killed 3 times. The enemy team act most of the time as a team. They attack together, they fly together, they intercept together, the same time in my team there is no air cover. NEVER.  It is so strange.
Do i have to pay for a premium account also to be with the right team? Is this plays any role? Or it is just bad luck?

Edited by Tetsui_Ja

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On 1/16/2016 at 5:12 AM, Der_Schuhmacher said:

Rangefinding? No

 

Targeting? Yes

gY9KAMo.png

This crude MSPaint sketch tells you how your gunner will move gun with increased skill

 

tl;dr - Moves gun vertically and Horizontally

What you said is a very good explanation why you should NEVER EVER put any crew points into targeting!

Edited by DestroyDaDa

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On 12/21/2016 at 2:51 PM, Raf1307 said:

30% in my view is significant, and to give you a quantitative example; a PzIV J has a base traverse of 4.9 deg/sec, with a max targeting skill the gunner can traverse it in 7.1 deg/sec.

Base to max is 100% increase, not 30%

And for the original topic, rangefinding is absolutely useless unless you regularly use the rangefinder feature (of dubious value in the first place).  Targeting is actually useful in my experience, not because of accuracy, but because the traverse is smoother, the gunner actually learns how to do both up and down and side to side at the same time instead of one after the other.

Edit:  Formatting

Edited by Arbella

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