Tamaster 20 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Hello guys, i came here to ask informations about the Rheinmetall-Borsig Waffentrager (also known as Ardelt Waffentrager), a German Tank Destroyer supposedly built from 1942 to 1944. I looked online a lot and i couldn't find any technical data about it. I have found very few pictures of it around and none of the tank interior. Of course there is the model on World Of Unreali- Of Tanks i mean, but i would never use any of the "technical data" taken from that source. I wanted to gather true technical data and informations to suggest this tank, but i really could not find any, so i ask you guys about this tank. Thank you in advance for any information regarding this topic :yes: Edited December 14, 2015 by Tamaster 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenin 2,654 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) The Waffenträger built by Rheinmetall in cooperation with Ardelt and the only one beeing produced in a sample was armed with a 8,8 cm PaK. Weight 15 t Length 8000 mm Width 3050 mm height 2150 mm 29 rounds of ammunition. The variants with the le.F.H., s.F.H. and 12,8 cm K. 43 weren't produced as sample anymore. Production of the 12,8 cm and s.F.H. armed variants was denied, because they were based on the Pz. III/IV chassis (production of it stopped) and they were too complicated Ardelt planned a "Waffenträger Größe 1" 6350 mm long, 3160 mm width, 2250 mm height, weight 14 t. 7,8 l Praga engine, 125 PS, 20 km/h. The le.F.H. could be put down via crane. Planned Production didn't started anymore. Weapons for "Größe 1" (size 1): Pak 40, Stuk 42 (both 75mm), le.F.H. (10,5cm), 3,7cm Flak Waffenträger Größe 2 by Ardelt, only a sample of 8,8 cm Pak armed variant was finished 11t weight, 7250 mm long, 2420 mm width, 2300 mm height. 35 rounds ammunition. 3,8l engine of Pz. I with 100 PS, speed 25 km/h. Planned weapons: 8,8 cm Pak 43 15 cm S.F.H: 10cm K 18 12,8 cm K43 I have the blueprints of some proposals in my book. Krupp, Steyr and Rheinmetall also had proposals for the "Größe 1" and "Größe 2" Waffenträger. Edited December 14, 2015 by Wenin 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazumi_ 6,575 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 The Waffenträger built by Rheinmetall in cooperation with Ardelt and the only one beeing produced in a sample was armed with a 8,8 cm PaK. Weight 15 t Length 8000 mm Width 3050 mm height 2150 mm 29 rounds of ammunition. The variants with the le.F.H., s.F.H. and 12,8 cm K. 43 weren't produced as sample anymore. Production of the 12,8 cm and s.F.H. armed variants was denied, because they were based on the Pz. III/IV chassis (production of it stopped) and they were too complicated Aredelt planned a "Waffenträger Größe 1" 6350 mm long, 3160 mm width, 2250 mm height, weight 14 t. 7,8 l Praga engine, 125 PS, 20 km/h. The le.F.H. could be put down via crane. Planned Production didn't started anymore. Weapons for "Größe 1" (size 1): Pak 40, Stuk 42 (both 75mm), le.F.H. (10,5cm), 3,7cm Flak Waffenträger Größe 2 by Ardelt, only a sample of 8,8 cm Pak armed variant was finished 11t weight, 7250 mm long, 2420 mm width, 2300 mm height. 35 rounds ammunition. 3,8l engine of Pz. I with 100 PS, speed 25 km/h. Planned weapons: 8,8 cm Pak 43 15 cm S.F.H: 10cm K 18 12,8 cm K43 I have the blueprints of some proposals in my book. Krupp, Steyr and Rheinmetall also had proposals for the "Größe 1" and "Größe 2" Waffenträger. can we see the BP's and images? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodanjumala 589 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 Well I know 2 designs, Ardelt and Rheinmetal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazumi_ 6,575 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 Well I know 2 designs, Ardelt and Rheinmetal. I like the first one, second looks like an inbred version of the tortise 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodanjumala 589 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 I like the first one, second looks like an inbred version of the tortise And second is the one that Germans produced in any number, 20 or so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamaster 20 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks for the info! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenin 2,654 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 And second is the one that Germans produced in any number, 20 or so. Ardelt built three of the "Leichter Waffenträger 10,5-le.F.H." and with Rheinmetall apparently one of the tank hunter with 88mm Pak. can we see the BP's and images? I've attached them. [attachment=176677:001.jpg] [attachment=176678:002.jpg] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodanjumala 589 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Ardelt built three of the "Leichter Waffenträger 10,5-le.F.H." and with Rheinmetall apparently one of the tank hunter with 88mm Pak. Didn't mean the 10.5cm SPG variant but the 8.8cm Waffenträger. Edited December 14, 2015 by Sodanjumala Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenin 2,654 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 Didn't mean the 10.5cm SPG variant but the 8.8cm Waffenträger. Hahn isn't very detailed there. According to him the 8,8 cm Pak variant from Rheinmetall and Ardelt was "the only sample which was tested", which reads to me as only 1 beeing produced. Later he mentions "only a few were produced and tested" in regard to all of the "Waffenträger" vehicles. So I sadly can't give a detailed statistic in that regard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazumi_ 6,575 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 Hahn isn't very detailed there. According to him the 8,8 cm Pak variant from Rheinmetall and Ardelt was "the only sample which was tested", which reads to me as only 1 beeing produced. Later he mentions "only a few were produced and tested" in regard to all of the "Waffenträger" vehicles. So I sadly can't give a detailed statistic in that regard. I saw something like "20 produced of the Rheinmetall Waffentrager" in one of his quotes, despite the Ardelt version seeming more preferable for combat with more armor to shield the crew. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenin 2,654 Report post Posted December 14, 2015 I saw something like "20 produced of the Rheinmetall Waffentrager" in one of his quotes, despite the Ardelt version seeming more preferable for combat with more armor to shield the crew. Mh, according to the text only the Version in cooperation with Ardelt was ever built. Multiple samples of the Ardelt tank hunter were built and two from Krupps proposal, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GungaGinga 31 Report post Posted December 16, 2015 They just seem like they wouldn't be implemented properly i'm afraid they will be way to visible and vulnerable for its own good. Maybe like a high tier marder 3? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodanjumala 589 Report post Posted December 16, 2015 They just seem like they wouldn't be implemented properly i'm afraid they will be way to visible and vulnerable for its own good. Maybe like a high tier marder 3? Considering the fact that those things were designed to have big guns in light chassis as possible. They are not something to be used as frontline tanks but as guns on tracks. Also, this is a historical section and not gameplay section. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenin 2,654 Report post Posted December 16, 2015 They just seem like they wouldn't be implemented properly i'm afraid they will be way to visible and vulnerable for its own good. Maybe like a high tier marder 3? The Rheinmetall-Ardelt Waffenträger is with about 2m height lower then almost all contemporary tanks and esp. lower then p.e. the Marder. Vulnerability also applies to the Marder and similar vehicles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet331 8,089 Report post Posted December 16, 2015 Well I know 2 designs, Ardelt and Rheinmetal. Thats actually the Styer design, thats the Ardelt-Rheinmetall 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorEEnium 2,533 Report post Posted December 20, 2015 Surviving example of Ardelt waffenträger can be found in Kubinka museum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellezza03 6,005 Report post Posted December 20, 2015 Thats actually the Styer design, thats the Ardelt-Rheinmetall Gib this now. Love it. 4.7 to reck the freaking Churchill mkVII :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juraleona 3,944 Report post Posted December 20, 2015 Gib this now. Love it. 4.7 to reck the freaking Churchill mkVII :D Oh wow, too hard/lazy to press 'A' or 'D' during the battle to flank, so let's make it so you don't have to? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenin 2,654 Report post Posted December 20, 2015 Please stick to the discussion of the Waffenträger and providing informations about it and don't resort to flaming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juraleona 3,944 Report post Posted December 20, 2015 Sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucass_CABJ 62 Report post Posted July 29, 2017 I arrived two years late, I found these two ,any ideas? Rheinmetall Panzerwagen rheinmetall skorpion g Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter12396 3,519 Report post Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) Rheinmetall Panzerwagen is a passing light tank proposal, ie a napkin tank. postwar The Skorpion was Rheinmetal's third submission for the Selbstfahrlafette für 12,8cm K 43 und 15cm sFH 43 project, as their other two designs weren't so great. Its competitors were Krupp's Heuschrecke and Grille 12/15s. (the Grille 15 in WoT is a fake, the real Grille 15 is what they call "GW panther") All three were canceled and not built. It just so happens I recently wrote an article on the Waffenträger Panthers, it will be published on tanks encyclopedia soon(tm). *I promise im not just using this to plug myself Edited July 29, 2017 by Hunter12396 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrussianOwl 437 Report post Posted February 4, 2020 There might be enough information ITT to make a suggestion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
