Laurelix

aircraft/loadouts
Replace current ammo belts with this

25 posts in this topic

This is my suggestion of how ammo racks should look like in war thunder for machine guns.

As you all may know... Low calibre guns have wrong ammo belts and they do low damage. The damage parts is being worked on...I decided to make ammo belts for the guns.
We all agree that they are pathetic right now.


US:
7.62mm browning:
Default: T/AP/Ball/AP/I
Universal: T/AP-I/AP/I
Tracers: AP/T
Stealth: AP-I/AP-I/AP/I

.50 cals are fine.


Germany: (I* = special German incidiary bullet)
7.92mm MG17:
Default: AP/Ball/AP-T/AP-I/AP-T
Universal: AP-T/AP/I*/AP/I*
Tracers: AP-T
Stealth: I*/AP/AP/I*/AP


MG131:
Default: IT/AP/T/HEI
Universal: AP/API-T/HEI/I
Air targets: AP-T/HE/AP-T/HE/HE/I
Tracers: API-T
Stealth: AP/I/HEI/HEI


Italy:
7.7mm Breda SAFAT
Default: AP-T/Ball/API/API-T
Universal: AP-T/AP/I
Tracer: API-T
Stealth: AP/AP/I/I


12.7mm Breda SAFAT
Default: IT/AP/T/HEI
Universal: AP/API-T/HEI/I
Air targets: AP-T/I/AP/HEI/HEI
Tracers: API-T
Stealth: AP/I/HEI/HEI


USSR:
ShKAS 7.62mm
Default: T/AP/Ball/AP/I
Universal: T/AP-I/AP-I/I
Tracers: AP/T
Stealth: AP-I/AP-I/AP/I

12.7mm Berezin is fine


UK:
7.7mm browning
Default: T/AP-I/I
Universal: AP-T/AP/API/I/API-T
Tracers: API-T
Stealth: API/I/API/AP


Japan:
Type 89 7.7mm
Default: AP/T/Ball/AP/AP/T
Universal: I/AP/T/HE/HE/AP-T
Air targets: AP-T/AP/HE/HE/I
Tracers: T/AP/AP/T/I
Stealth: AP/AP/HE/HE/I

Type 97 7.7mm
Default: AP/T/I
Universal: AP/AP/T/I/AP/T
Tracer: T/AP/AP/T/I
Stealth: AP/AP/I/I/AP

Type 98 7.92mm
Default: AP/T/API
Universal: AP/I/T/HEI/AP-T
Air targets: AP-T/HEI/HEI/I
Tracers: AP-T
Stealth: AP/HEI/HEI/API

Ho-103 12.7mm
Default: AP/T/Ball/AP/HE
Universal: AP/API-T/HE/I
Air targets: AP-T/HE/AP-T/HE/HE/I
Tracers: API-T
Stealth: AP/I/HE/HE/

Type 3 13.2mm
Default: AP-T/AP/T/HE
Universal: AP/I/HE
Ground Targets: AP-T/AP
Air Targets: AP-T/I/HE/HE/AP
Tracer: API-T
Stealth: AP/I/HE/HE

Do you think my ammo belt suggestion should replace the current ammo belts?

Edited by blakeob
Added prefix tag.
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Are these historical?

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Are these historical?

Seconded. Although as, per an older suggestion, if it was possible to change the composition of belts in WW2, I would like to be able to make my own belts.

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No where even close to historical

 

For 7.62mm Brownings the only belts for aircraft should be

  • Ball/Tracer
  • AP/Incendiary/Tracer
  • AP/Tracer

For ground use of 7.62mm Brownings it would be (incendiaries were not allowed to be used in ground vehicles)

  • Ball/Tracer
  • AP/Tracer

For M2 .50 cals, there would be a handful of belts available for aircraft just based on the ammunition available for the time period

  • Pre-war to December 1943
    • M1 Incendiary
    • M1 Tracer
    • M2 Ball
    • M2 AP
  • January 1944 to August 1944
    • M1 Incendiary
    • M1 Tracer
    • M2 Ball
    • M2 AP
    • M8 AP-I
  • August 1944 to May 1945
    • M1 Incendiary
    • M1 Tracer
    • M2 Ball
    • M2 AP
    • M8 AP-I
    • M20 API-T
    • M21 Headlight Tracer
  • P-47M-1 only
    • M1 Tracer
    • M2 Ball
    • M2 AP
    • M8 AP-I
    • M20 API-T
    • M23 Incendiary
  • May 1945 onwards (F8F-1, P-51H)
    • M1 Tracer
    • M2 Ball
    • M2 AP
    • M8 AP-I
    • M20 API-T
    • M21 Headlight Tracer
    • M23 Incendiary

For M3 .50 cals,

  • M1 Tracer
  • M2 Ball
  • M2 AP
  • M8 AP-I
  • M20 API-T
  • M21 Headlight Tracer
  • M23 Incendiary

 

Besides your Japanese belts are all wrong, their air targets would be HE and Incendiary

Edited by SubRyan
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I believe there is also an Italian Incendiary MG round called Ramato Incaminjato (I don't know Italian) that was basically a bullet coated in White Phosphorous

That make little to no sense... That would literally "shat" the barrel with remains of phosphorus after couple shots.

 

Are you sure?

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I am pretty sure, that there were no 7,7mm (and around) HE bullets. They were too small to fit inside high explosive filler. I actually think that the lowest caliber where HE was used, was German 13mm, but I might be wrong. Generally, explosive fillers were used for cannons, not for rifle caliber bullets.

 

I don't like your changes. You have no data if they were historical, which is the base for ammunition belts.

 

Also, custom belts were NOT something standard that everyone could do in the army (and I mean any army). Simply because of logistic reasons - custom made belts would require to either supply loose bullets of different kind that someone would have to pack into belts, or for the manufacturer to gather production orders from everyone that wanted a custom belt and make it in the factory, then deliver it. Both ways were impossible for the time period we are speaking about. People had neither time to sit and make custom belts with loose bullets, nor suppliers were able to gather production orders for such things quickly and efficiently to make it a common thing. I bet that if there was an ace and army wanted to pamper him, he could request a custom ammo belt - but that was (and I bet it) a privilege reserved for the outstanding pilots, not just anyone in the army, because otherwise army logistics wouldn't be able to handle this. And what was most important for them, was to deliver supplies QUICKLY, not drive around like a courier and deliver custom made belts. That ain't damn Amazon.

Edited by Apache_Warrior
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They were 7.7mm explosive rounds. 

 

GB developed them to fight the Zepps over london, that was mix of 7.7mm incendiary round and 7.7 explosive round (hard impact, i dont know that it had fuse or not)

 

It was quite... innovative at the time, but very problematic if you couldnt manually reload the gun

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Ok, I was wrong. Bullet cross sections of 7,7×58mm Arisaka.

Type_92_7.7_mm_semi-rimmed.jpg

 

Still, I think that explosive filler in 7mm bullets is just not enough to really deal any good amount of damage.

Edited by Apache_Warrior
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This is my suggestion of how ammo racks should look like in war thunder for machine guns.

As you all may know... Low calibre guns have wrong ammo belts and they do low damage. The damage parts is being worked on...I decided to make ammo belts for the guns.
We all agree that they are pathetic right now.


US:
7.62mm browning:
Default: T/AP/Ball/AP/I
Universal: T/AP-I/AP/I
Tracers: AP/T
Stealth: AP-I/AP-I/AP/I

.50 cals are fine.

uh... what about the 20mm AN/M2 cannons which have Practice rounds in its ground attack and stealth ammo belts

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On 19/10/2015 at 0:37 AM, Delta_48 said:

This is my suggestion of how ammo racks should look like in war thunder for machine guns.

As you all may know... Low calibre guns have wrong ammo belts and they do low damage. The damage parts is being worked on...I decided to make ammo belts for the guns.
We all agree that they are pathetic right now.


US:
7.62mm browning:
Default: T/AP/Ball/AP/I
Universal: T/AP-I/AP/I
Tracers: AP/T
Stealth: AP-I/AP-I/AP/I

.50 cals are fine.

uh... what about the 20mm AN/M2 cannons which have Practice rounds in its ground attack and stealth ammo belts

Practice rounds are straight ball rounds they call it practice cuz normal ball rounds were also used as practice

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Just one thing tho

Tracer belts in game and in real life seem to have 1 big difference
Belt pattern length .. ahh Eg.
In game if it has say HE & AP(randomly chosen for example) in belt it might be something like this
AP/AP/AP/HE  Then it repeats

But the real life version of the same belt in same plane might have been like
AP/AP/AP/AP/AP/AP/AP/AP/HE Then it repeats.

I will try find the proper info i was reading about the belts and pattern length on real P51's
(where it says like every 10th round was a tracer but ingame they are like every 4th round)

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Posted (edited)

As you know, once you unlock the modification for planes, you can choose from a number of preset ammo belts for your guns. Each belt has advantages and disadvantages, but often times there is a very limited variety of belts. I propose that the once the player unlocks the required modification for changing belts, they are allowed to not only choose from the existing preset belts, but also create their own custom ammo belts using any combination of existing shell types for that gun. Say I want a belt with extremely good armor pen, but not much else. I create a belt using only AP shells(if applicable to that gun). Maybe I want a combination of many shells that are usable for the gun: AP-I, HEFI-T, API-T, HE, HEI. Basically, custom aircraft ammo belts using historically accurate shell options, so no using made up shells that were never used for that gun, like HE shells on M2 50. cals. All this would entail IRL is the ground deciding not to put Incendiary rounds into my ground attacker that's about to go shoot at concrete pillboxes.

Edited by SAUBER_KH7
Prefix

SAUBER_KH7 (Posted )

Merged.
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Suggested before, and my opinion is the same: if it ever happened for pilots to decide on their own belt layout during WW2, I would love to do it.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, GuiRitter said:

Suggested before, and my opinion is the same: if it ever happened for pilots to decide on their own belt layout during WW2, I would love to do it.

Ah Thank you for pointing that out. I guess it was missed in the suggestions list.

 

Topic has been merged.

Edited by SAUBER_KH7
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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, GuiRitter said:

Suggested before, and my opinion is the same: if it ever happened for pilots to decide on their own belt layout during WW2, I would love to do it.

Ammo was not issued in belts, it was issued in boxes. The "unified" belts were just a way to ease the technicians their work, but as belts were "belted" at the unit, I do not think there weren't any atypical belts.

 

One example from recent times:

23mm belts for GSh-23-2 were officially to be HE-HE-API-API, though it was not uncommon to have simply HE-API belts issued. (Quoting people who have experience with the said belts.)

 

t_am-23_297.jpg

Edited by Koty1996
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Watch the WW2 film titled "Mission for Tonight". It follows an actual WW2 RAF bomb group during one of their missions. In it, it clearly shows the ground crew putting the MG belts together from loose rounds. I would imagine they'd set up the belt however the flight crews wanted, supply allowing.

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5 hours ago, *maxmillian said:

Watch the WW2 film titled "Mission for Tonight". It follows an actual WW2 RAF bomb group during one of their missions. In it, it clearly shows the ground crew putting the MG belts together from loose rounds. I would imagine they'd set up the belt however the flight crews wanted, supply allowing.

Could you give a link to it somehow? I searched on Google, Wikipedia and IMDb and found nothing.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, GuiRitter said:

Could you give a link to it somehow? I searched on Google, Wikipedia and IMDb and found nothing.

My bad. It was "Target for Tonight". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121791/ 

I watched it on Amazon.

Edited by *maxmillian
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