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Historically Inaccurate Loadouts


If germans get most produced 109G-6, I want russians to get most produced yak-9. 1 20mm and 1 12mm and turns better than any yak or 109. 

 

Yeah,

Level 7 Yak-9 (M-106)      vs       Bf109 f4

Level 8 Yak-9 T                 vs      Bf109 G2 

Level 9 Yak-9 S                 vs      Bf109 G6

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Mule , Little question.

This game According to the type of ammunition rate of fire changing?

Example Mg151  M-shell fire belt 650 rof

Apc shell 750 rof.

Do you know?

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Mule , Little question.

This game According to the type of ammunition rate of fire changing?

Example Mg151  M-shell fire belt 650 rof

Apc shell 750 rof.

Do you know?

I'm not a dev working for Gaijin, don't know why you keep asking me things

 

Historically they were using belts with mixed ammunition so it makes little sense to bother with different RoF with different shells..

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Mule, do you have access to any other sources about the Typhoon?

I have been unable to find any primary source regarding its ammo load.

I have been unable to find any data supporting the 300 rpg figure either, secondary and tertiary sources I've seen all quote the 500 rpg figure.

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Historical Question.

Rs-82 air to ground rocket family contact to airframe Does the detonate?

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Historical Question.
Rs-82 air to ground rocket family contact to airframe Does the detonate?

 

the earliest known use by the Soviet Air Force of aircraft-launched unguided anti-aircraft rockets in combat against heavier-than-air aircraft took place in August 1939, during the Battle of Khalkhin Gol. A group of Polikarpov I-16 fighters under command of Captain N. Zvonarev were using RS-82 rockets against Japanese aircraft, shooting down 16 fighters and 3 bombers in total.

 

The warhead is armed explosive charge, which is used to undermine the pin (AM-A) or non-contact (AGDT-A) fuses.

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Gobsmacked the Swordfish doesn't have bombs!

 

Sure they're small, and not many of them, but it would make the aircraft useful in-game... except just the sea scenarios...

 

Bombs should be available from outset (could carry them from first versions) and rockets after 1943.

 

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Gobsmacked the Swordfish doesn't have bombs!

 

Sure they're small, and not many of them, but it would make the aircraft useful in-game... except just the sea scenarios...

 

Bombs should be available from outset (could carry them from first versions) and rockets after 1943.

The bombs in your picture are small, sure, but the old girl could actually carry three 500 lb bombs, or other combinations leading up to a maximum of 1500 lbs. Enough to ruin anybody's day! The Taranto raids incorporated bomb carrying Swordfish as well as aircraft with torpedoes, so the Fleet Air Arm certainly was not adverse to using bombs against major targets.

 

As for wanting the bombs in game, never fear! Steps have already been taken...

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Hello! Someone mentioned I should move my post to here after I posted it in questions to the developers so here goes nothing! I would really love to see the He 111 turrets fixed so this beautiful plane functions like it should! I can't imagine the Germans would have bothered using it as long as they did if it were so limited as the game portrays. Thank you for the heads up and your time.

 

Original post can be found at: http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/32319-he-111-turrets/

 

**Original Post Below**

 

Dear Developers,

 

First off I'd like to thank you for the great game and great attention to detail, and I am really looking forward to bomber cockpits! Sadly, there is one problem with the He 111 I'd like to hear back about. In the game the He 111's turrets have very limited fields of fire. I feel like you attempted to do very good research, the fields of fire would indicate you had someone go to a museum and play around with the turret and measure it's field of fire, however, they measured the field of fire without rotating the cupola. I claim no credit for the video linked, but it's a good video showing what I mean as it's easier to see than to describe in words:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBhGp23NS_s  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlJlOQcDAhE

As the video shows, for each position of the cupola, the field of fire is restricted to one side, however, you can change which side it is restricted to simply by rotating the entire assembly. The forward and ventral gunner positions are way off in the game, forward can't shoot up, and ventral can't even shoot directly down, both of which were easily possible in this plane, the nose gun especially had very good coverage. The coverage in game is very lacking in comparison to the real bird, and I can't imagine the plane would have been used much if it functioned as such. It's a pretty easy mistake to make thinking field of fire was more limited if you aren't familiar with that style of mounting. I was really curious as to whether this was a conscious decision for balance reasons or simply a small oversight, and would love to see it corrected either way. Looking forward to your response. As a note, I have only unlocked the H-3 variant thus far in game, new to the game, and have not seen the other He 111's to see if perhaps this problem was rectified later. I hope that I haven't come across harsh, I realize the game is in beta to find things like this before release, I simply wanted to point this out.

 

Thank you for your time,

Heinkel Hero

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Bf109 G-10 like other 109s had 20mm, Bf109G-10/U4 had mk 108.

I guess you are correct. However, I think many of the planes were equipped with the U4 Kit, which I still think should be represented in game. Plus, the 20mm seems too weak for its tier. 

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Looks like these were fixed in last patch :)

Bf 109 G-2 should be called Bf 109 G-2/trop to denote it's air filter
 
Bf109 K-4 should be called Bf 109 K-4/R4 to indicate the MG151/20 wing pod cannons
 
Bf109 G-6 should be called Bf 109 G-6/U4/R5 for it's 30mm center and gondola cannons
 
Fw 190 A-5 should be called Fw 190 A-5/U3 to designate it as a Jabo (and explain it's 2 missing wing cannons)

 

but Bf 109 G-10 still has 150 rounds of 20mm :(

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Fixed:

 

Bf109 G-6 should be called Bf 109 G-6/U4/R5 for it's 30mm center and gondola cannons

 

Rüstsatz R5 (sometimes R V and some sourced claim that the 2x MK108 in gondolas where Rüstsatz R4) is historically not confirmed and was (if it existed) probably not used in combat. 

 

The 30mm engine cannon however is confirmed and is mentioned in multiple sources as Umrüstsatz U4 and therefore deserves to be mentioned in the planes name, rather then the current questionable Bf-109G6/R5.

 

Here a rather good Internet source link with multiple further sources mentioned (some of them sadly actual books so not always further links): http://www.klueser.eu/Me109.php#GKRuestsatz

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The FW190A5 in the game is the fighter bomber version as it can carry bombs, which only had 2 MG151 20mm cannon, so stating it should have 4 20mm cannon is wrong.  U8/U13 versions I think were fighter bombers with 2 20mm cannon.

 

So, the Game should feature a selection where you have the "Stock" plane with 2x MG151/20 and 2x MGFF/M cannons and no bombs.

- or a Fighter Bomber loadout with bombs and the MGFF/M Cannons removed.

 

Or add the Fighter bomber -version as another plane in the same Rank or something..
Just put the FW190A5 with all it's guns in game, maybe as an A-4 version?

 

I want to fly the Würger!

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Incorrect ammo counts:
In-game Me 410A's have the following ammo counts below:


shot20130502195327.jpg

shot20130502195407.jpg

shot20130502195502.jpg

 
Actual ammo counts from the Me 410 manual page 10 pic below: (direct link)


410oj.jpg
 
 
Game 410 A-1 missing 100 rounds from rear firing MG 131
Game 410 A-1/U-2 missing 40 rounds from forward firing MG 151/20 and 100 rounds from rear firing MG 131
Game 410 A-1/U-4 missing 100 rounds from rear firing MG 131

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Hello! Someone mentioned I should move my post to here after I posted it in questions to the developers so here goes nothing! I would really love to see the He 111 turrets fixed so this beautiful plane functions like it should! I can't imagine the Germans would have bothered using it as long as they did if it were so limited as the game portrays. Thank you for the heads up and your time.

 

Original post can be found at: http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/32319-he-111-turrets/

 

**Original Post Below**

 

Dear Developers,

 

First off I'd like to thank you for the great game and great attention to detail, and I am really looking forward to bomber cockpits! Sadly, there is one problem with the He 111 I'd like to hear back about. In the game the He 111's turrets have very limited fields of fire. I feel like you attempted to do very good research, the fields of fire would indicate you had someone go to a museum and play around with the turret and measure it's field of fire, however, they measured the field of fire without rotating the cupola. I claim no credit for the video linked, but it's a good video showing what I mean as it's easier to see than to describe in words:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBhGp23NS_s  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlJlOQcDAhE

As the video shows, for each position of the cupola, the field of fire is restricted to one side, however, you can change which side it is restricted to simply by rotating the entire assembly. The forward and ventral gunner positions are way off in the game, forward can't shoot up, and ventral can't even shoot directly down, both of which were easily possible in this plane, the nose gun especially had very good coverage. The coverage in game is very lacking in comparison to the real bird, and I can't imagine the plane would have been used much if it functioned as such. It's a pretty easy mistake to make thinking field of fire was more limited if you aren't familiar with that style of mounting. I was really curious as to whether this was a conscious decision for balance reasons or simply a small oversight, and would love to see it corrected either way. Looking forward to your response. As a note, I have only unlocked the H-3 variant thus far in game, new to the game, and have not seen the other He 111's to see if perhaps this problem was rectified later. I hope that I haven't come across harsh, I realize the game is in beta to find things like this before release, I simply wanted to point this out.

 

Thank you for your time,

Heinkel Hero

 

 

Wow, it's pretty awesome that the gun can almost face directly up and down, it's almost like having an actual ball turret. 

 

Mule, do you have any thoughts on if that can be implemented in game? I mean, it is kind of a historically inaccurate loadout.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Beaufighter VI with rocket should have removed all MGs.

When Beaufighter carry rockets it carry then instead wing MGs. 

Of course wrong armament on Beaufighter X - It should have 6 x .303 not 6 x .50 MGs. !!!

 

Source - Monografie Lotnicze 74 - Bristol Beaufighter cz.1

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Mule, do you have access to any other sources about the Typhoon?

I have been unable to find any primary source regarding its ammo load.

I have been unable to find any data supporting the 300 rpg figure either, secondary and tertiary sources I've seen all quote the 500 rpg figure.

 

 

Typhoon IA was equipment with 12 x 0.303 mm MGs and carry 6000 round for all machine guns.

 

Source - Monografie Lotnicze 95 HAWKER TYPHOON cz.2 - side 91

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Beaufighter VI with rocket should have removed all MGs.
When Beaufighter carry rockets it carry then instead wing MGs. 
Of course wrong armament on Beaufighter X - It should have 6 x .303 not 6 x .50 MGs. !!!
 
Source - Monografie Lotnicze 74 - Bristol Beaufighter cz.1


Beaufighter X,
only on Beaufighter 21 exists .50 MGs - and reduced number - 4 x .50 MGs
4573455.jpg
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According to todays Q&A Session, a problem with Ho-5 20 mm cannon and MG 151/20 on Ki-61.

 

So basically, in game we have three Ki-61 versions :

a) Ki-61 - la - 2x7.7mm + 2x12.7 mm

b) Ki-61 - lb 4x12.7 mm

c) Ki-61 - lc 2x12,7 + 2x20 mm MG 151 in wings !!!!

The point is that none of the Ki-61 lc was equipped with german MG 151/20, only the KI-61 la and lb. 

 

According to a "Putnam - Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War".

Page 115 

"However, as cannon of domestic design were not yet available, 388 Ki-61-las and Ki-61-lbs were modified on the assembly line to carry one 20 mm Mauser MG 151 in each wing. (...)"

According to a "Kawasaki Ki-61" Masami Tanimura, 1967

"800  20 mm Mauser MG 151/20 cannons and ammunition supplies were imported to Japan by submarine. The Ki-61 Hei was built in conjunction with the Otsu variant on the Kawasaki production lines but some "conversion kits" were directly sent to New Guinea. In this variant, the wing machine guns were replaced by Mauser MG 151/20 cannons ."

 

 

 

And now a Ki-61 lc

Again, "Putnam ... "

"With the availability of the indigenous 20 mm Ho-5 cannon the Ki-61-I KAIc was produced with a pair of these replacing with two fuselage mounted 12.7 mm Type 1 machine-guns.  (...) Production  of Ki-61-I KAIc began in January 1944"

Screenshot as proof :

 

ki61mg15120aho5.png

 

Now about HO-5 20 mm cannon.

The HO-5 is an improvement on the 12.7 mm Japanese copy of the U.S. 0.50 cal aircraft machine gun. It is a recoil-operated, disintegrating metallic link belt-fed, air-cooled, aircraft machine cannon. It is mounted as a fixed weapon and as such it is fired electrically by remote control. 

 

The recoil mechanism consists of a metal cylinder into which is fitted a coil spring. Through the center of this extends a 5/16-inch rod which screws into a brass bushing. The rod extends through the spring follower which rests on the coil spring and is secured by two lock nuts. Buffering action takes place in the recoil direction only. There is no quick change barrel. Because of the weight of the bolt and the heavy recoil spring, a booster is used, this being found in the flash hider.

The gun has a high cyclic rate of fire, muzzle velocities of 2,304 f/s (A.P.), 2,430 f/s (H.E.), and a penetration performance of 7/8-inch homogenous plate at 20° at 200 yards; 1/2-inch at 20° at 580 yards. The maximum weight lifting capacity of the belt is 62 pounds.

The disassembly of the weapon is the same as the Browning Cal. .30 and Cal. .50 machine guns with a few minor exceptions. The Japanese weapon has no back plate latch. The back plate is held in place by two pins, one at the top, and one at the bottom.

 

SPECIFICATION

 

Caliber     -    20 mm (0.79 in.)

Weight w/accessories   - 104 11/16 lbs.

Weight w/o accessories  - 86 3/4 lbs.

Length (overall)  - 63 3/4 ins.

Sight radius

Principle of operation  - Recoil with muzzle cup

Feeding device - Metal link belt type

Capacity of feeding device   -100 rounds

Cooling system -   Air

Ammunition types -  A.P., H.E., Incendiary

Cyclic rate -  950 r.p.m.

Type of sight -  Reflector

Weight of barrel  - 12 1/8 lbs.

Length of barrel  - 35.4 ins.

Length of rifling  - 31.5 ins.

Rifling  :  

Twist  - R.H.    

Form    

No. of grooves -  8

 Depth of grooves    

Width of grooves

Chamber pressure

Muzzle velocity (A.P. Shot) -  2,304 f/s          

                        (H.E. Shell)  - 2,430 f/s

Effective range -  600 yds.

 

20mm-aircraft-cannon-ho-5.jpg

 

Ammunition for this cannon : http://www.japaneseammunition.com/start.php?main_cat=13&sub_cat=135&visitor_level=1&user_id=0&user_name=&session_id=866f951f47172feb742ef9aba81bfa97&access=view&expanded_sub_parent=135

 

So it should look like this :

a) Ki-61-la - 2x7.7 mm + 2x12.7mm

b) Ki-61-lb - 4x12.7mm

c) Modified (premium ?) Ki-61-lb - 2x12.7  fuselage mounted + 2x20 mm German MG 151/20 in wings

d)Ki-61-lc - 2x12.7mm in wings + 2x20mm Ho-5 Japanese Cannon  fuselage mounted

 

Dear BVV, I'll later try to give more information because atm a part of my documents is in Polish, and it will take  some time to translate them.

 

More sources :

http://www.gunsight.jp/b/english/data/ja-gun-e.htm

Ho5-01.jpg

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