Muleo

Historically Inaccurate Loadouts

333 posts in this topic

In game the Spitfire IX has 60 rounds per gun for it's Hispano cannons, even though it was fitted with the C type wing, which allowed for 120 rounds per gun for the Hispano cannons.

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2

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This was originally written a few months ago in the old gaijinent WT forum, but since it was deleted during the transition I'm reposting it here.
I didn't make a backup copy of it so some things are missing. If anyone remembers something that's missing here or finds any new inaccuracies, please post here so I can add them to the list.
Hopefully this time round it can get some dev attention and some of these mistakes can be corrected.
Note: the page numbers I list are the page numbers of the pdf file, not the internal page numbers in the document ........

Thank you very much for such a detailed bug-report.The information has been noted, corrections will be implemented.

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DO-217 had a max bomb load of 4000KG not 2,000 KG.

The Beaufort could carry 1 2000lb, 2 1000lbs, 4 500lb or 8 250lb bombs.

Do 217 N-1 missing its 8 x SC/SD 50 bomb loadout:
He 111 H-6 missing its 2 x torpedo loadout:
Ju 87 D missing its Waffenbehalter 81 loadout:
Miscellaneous items
Ju 87 D-3, D-5 missing its dive siren:

Item number 153:

Ar 234 B missing its 2 x 20 mm MG 151 firing to the rear (Item number 1):

Do 217K and M 4*1000kg only semi AP (or 2*1800kg)
He 111H 8*250kg
He111 H16
Do217 E2

I'm sorry guys, but I'd rather focus on loadouts that are wrong, rather than missing. We're still in beta with lots and lots of upcoming content which means there are very few planes with all their ordnance available atm. So I'd rather not try to list every missing bomb loadout. Missing content isn't as worrying as inaccurate content IMO

If someone would like to create a 'missing bomb/loadout' thread, that would be great.
 

Should the Me410B-1/U2 have the 13mm MG131s like the B model before it?

Actually I'm not sure this is the case.. gonna look into it, thanks

 

I've noticed that one of the cockpit ammo counters in the Bf 109 G-10 reads "Mk 108" when it actually has an MG 151 cannon instead. (And made a bug report about it.) Should the G-10 really have the 30 mm, or is this just a labeling error?

Both, G-10 could be fitted with the mk108 (U4), but mostly it's a labelling error.

 

Thank you very much for such a detailed bug-report.The information has been noted, corrections will be implemented.

Music to my ears :) Thank you

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Spitfire Mk. IX have type C wings, it using Hispano Mk. II with 120 rpg.

Yeah sorry, missed that post

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1. F2A-1 have incorrect ammoload for .30 (sure it's copypast error):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo#cite_ref-The_Hamlyn_Guide_to_Military_Aircraft_Markings_0-1

 

2. а6м5 should have 125 rpg not 60

 

3. Zero model 52: 2*7.7*700 instead of ingame 500 rpg

OPNAV-16-V #T217 TAIC Report No. 17 November 1944
Combat Evaluation of Zeke 52 with F4U-1D, F6F-5, and FM-2
Report by U.S. Naval Air Station Patuxent River, MD.

2 Mk II 20mm M.G. = 167 lbs
200 rnds. ammo = 166 lbs
2 7.7 mm M.G. = 55 lbs
1400 rnds. ammo = 105 lbs

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2. а6м5 should have 125 rpg not 60

A6M5 currently has 100 rpg, are you saying this should be 125?
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I have only one paper source which says 125. Perhaps it's incorrect

If the game disigners already corrected it from 60, so that means they checked the figure.

 

Also Spit 1 have perhaps incorrect 350 rpg (I have source on 300 rpg)

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7.92mm/7.62mm/.303/.50cal MG bullets with HE shells? The smallest caliber MG HE rounds used in WW2 I know of were MG131, small 8mm caliber HE shells makes no sense
http://www.scribd.com/doc/77566715/Munitions-Fur-Flieger-Bordwaffen-L-dv-4000-10 Luftwaffe Munitions Handbook, pg30~59 lists 7.92mm ammunition, no HE bullets

Having owned a rifle chambered in 8mm Mauser I must point out it isn't actually 8mm. It's the 7.92 mm you have listed above. It was and still is listed as 8mm Mauser. The document is probably​ referring to that very common caliber.

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Having owned a rifle chambered in 8mm Mauser I must point out it isn't actually 8mm. It's the 7.92 mm you have listed above. It was and still is listed as 8mm Mauser. The document is probably​ referring to that very common caliber.

That's not my point at all... I'm aware that 8mm is just abbreviated way of saying 7.92mm, the point is that small arms caliber HE shells makes no sense (and were never used in the war) as you'd barely be able to pack enough HE to burst the bullet itself, let alone do any extra damage to anything you hit.

 

On that note it looks like 8mm HE bullets were removed and replaced with ball

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7.92mm/7.62mm/.303/.50cal MG bullets with HE shells? The smallest caliber MG HE rounds used in WW2 I know of were MG131, small 8mm caliber HE shells makes no sense
http://www.scribd.co...en-L-dv-4000-10 Luftwaffe Munitions Handbook, pg30~59 lists 7.92mm ammunition, no HE bullets

 

In the Russian military specifications these type of bullets are called "sighting-incendiary" (ПЗ - пристрелочно-зажигательная (PZ - pristrelotchno-zazhigatyelnaya)), you may see it on the 3rd picture. By the principle of action they were explosive with incendiary after-effect. We have chosen the similar specification for the English localization, probably it's not quite accurate. Other nations have such bullets as well, for example German 'B-patrone' has incedentary action with weak explosive effect (see the description). 

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PBY - Catalina, front gunner (nose turret) should have dual .30 (7.62 mm) machine guns instead of the single 7.62 mm it has now.
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In the Russian military specifications these type of bullets are called "sighting-incendiary" (ПЗ - пристрелочно-зажигательная (PZ - pristrelotchno-zazhigatyelnaya)), you may see it on the 3rd picture. By the principle of action they were explosive with incendiary after-effect. We have chosen the similar specification for the English localization, probably it's not quite accurate. Other nations have such bullets as well, for example German 'B-patrone' has incedentary action with weak explosive effect (see the description). 


Yeah I know these bullets existed experimentally, but were they actually used in combat? It seems all the HE bullets were removed from the game, was it because they were ahistorical?
 

PBY - Catalina, front gunner (nose turret) should have dual .30 (7.62 mm) machine guns instead of the single 7.62 mm it has now.

Hmm I am seeing both.. but the double turret looks more common, do you know anything more about the turrets?

Mule, will you add F2A-1 and so on?

Sorry, must have missed it. Added

Also please add
"Spitfire II should be called Spitfire IIb to expain the hispanos"

Added
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I just have to say, this thread is great. I hope it all gets edited to be as true-to-life as they can be.

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Yeah I know these bullets existed experimentally, but were they actually used in combat? It seems all the HE bullets were removed from the game, was it because they were ahistorical?

 

Sure! Soviet PZ and MD/MDZ (‘instant-action incendiary’) bullets are common and usual ammo type for the large caliber machine guns. Even modern Russian large caliber MGs have MDZ bullets. These type of ammo gave clearly visible flash when hitting the target and this was good for sighting. Also, they could set fuel tanks on fire, or destruct plating on wooden or mixed (metal-wood) planes. PZ bullets now found in the ammo belts of shot down aircraft of the WWII era.

The pictures i’ve given you above, are from actual Soviet military specifications catalogues and albums("Специальные патроны стрелкового вооружения. Описание и указания по применению" Воениздат 1940 and "Альбом конструкций патронов стрелкового оружия" 1946)

And yes, the ARE actually in game, and they were in game before 1.29 and even 1.27.

1799149.jpg

1799151.jpg

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And yes, the ARE actually in game, and they were in game before 1.29 and even 1.27.

Ah I see them, they've been renamed to AI, adjustment incendiary

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Could you shed any light into what the N1K2-j's mark 27 rockets are?
 
Are they supposed to be these?
351977016.jpg
351977015.jpg

Ingame however they're tiny dart-like rockets
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PBY - Catalina, front gunner (nose turret) should have dual .30 (7.62 mm) machine guns instead of the single 7.62 mm it has now.

 
3020 PBY-5A Catalina Airplane Characteristics & Performance - 1 September 1943

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/consolidated/pbycatalina/3020pby-5acatalinaairplanecharacteristicsperformance-1september1943.html
 
Row: FLEX.GUNS\AMMUNITION     BOW: 2 - .30/2100, Tunnel: 1 - .30/500
FLEX.GUNS\AMMUNITION     Waist: 2 - .50/840
 
On p.5 - angles of attack for machineguns
 
And as you may see on p.1-p2. there are 8  loadouts of PBY-5a from PATROL\BOMBER to FERRY
 
[spoiler]
1247802.jpg
2234489.jpg
2130162.jpg
3_21.jpg
[/spoiler]

3008 Basic Weight Check List and loading data for Army models OA-10 and OA-10A airplanes

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/consolidated/pbycatalina/3008basicweightchecklistandloadingdataforarmymodelsoa-10andoa-10aairplanes.html

 

p.3

A-10  (I) .30 cal Gun

A-11  Twin guns installation

and in p.28 "ammunition table"

twin 30 .cal bow - 2100 RDS

single 30 .cal bow - 1000 RDS

waist .50 cal -  956 RDS

tunnel (in magazine) - 500 RDS

 

Ingame - 1 picture with 1 gun

May be with one gun - in PBY 5-A early, and in PBY-5a late replaced with eyeball turret with 2 guns :dntknw:
3019 PBY-5 Catalina Performance Data - 19 August 1942
 
http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/consolidated/pbycatalina/3019pby-5catalinaperformancedata-19august1942.html
 
as we see in flex. guns there are 2 - .50 & 2 -.30 (no gun in rear tunnel)
 
[spoiler]
2181693.jpg
[/spoiler]

but
 
PBY-5 Airplane
 
http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/consolidated/pbycatalina/3007todo.html
 
p. 19 - chapter "tunnel gun and camera compartment" - may be modifications WITH tunnel gun :dntknw:

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Great job Mule, it seems like they indeed used your inaccurate load out list and are correcting it with 1.29.50. Link.

 

Thanks for your work in compiling that list.

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j2m3_27godan_viaa6m232.jpg

 

The Mark 27/ Dai 27-Go Dan should look like that one above..

 

Since I dont have the N1K2 yet i cant check what you mean with tiny darth but I assume the model could be the Ro3.

 

 

Ro-San Dan Ro-3  weighing about 5 kg against Aircrafts.
 
 
Pretty sure its not one of those 2 :Ps
 
Ro-Go Dan Ro-5  ~ 30 kg
Ro-Shichi Dan Ro-7  ~ 300 kg
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'mark 27' rockets on the N1K2
shot%202013.04.12%2019.37.25.jpg

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I'm goin to look through those Reports over the weekend.. lets see if i can find anything related to that Missile..

 

 

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ%20Reports/USNTMJ_toc.htm

 

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/gvt-reports_toc.htm

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