Muleo

Historically Inaccurate Loadouts

333 posts in this topic

This was originally written a few months ago in the old gaijinent WT forum, but since it was deleted during the transition I'm reposting it here.
I didn't make a backup copy of it so some things are missing. If anyone remembers something that's missing here or finds any new inaccuracies, please post here so I can add them to the list.
Hopefully this time round it can get some dev attention and some of these mistakes can be corrected.
Note: the page numbers I list are the page numbers of the pdf file, not the internal page numbers in the document

This thread is for listing inaccurate loadouts, not missing ones. This game is still in beta and lots of options are still missing and coming. Practically every plane is missing some bomb/rocket/gun loadout or other. Devs are perfectly aware of this so there's not much point listing them.

Incorrect ammo counts:

Incorrect weapons:

Incorrect Rate of Fire:

  • I-153, I-16 are firing their ShKAS synchronized through the prop blades. This should lower the RoF from 1800 to 1625 but ingame they fire at full RoF: 1.16kg/s / 9.7g/1000 *60s/min / 4guns= 1794RPM

Ahistorical Ammunition:

Inaccurate/incomplete naming:

  • A6M3 mod 22 should be renamed A6M3a mod 22 because of the Type 99 mk 2 cannon
  • A6M2 should be renamed A6M2b mod 21 because of the folding wingtips

Fixed:[spoiler]

  • Beaufighter X should have 6x .303cal not 6x .50cal MG (Stewart Wilson "Beaufort, Beaufighter and Mosquito in Australian Service")
  • Me410B should have 2x MG131 not 2x MG17
  • TBF-1c carries a MK.XII (702kg) torpedo. Historically It carried a MK.XIII (1005 kg) http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/24271-historically-inaccurate-loadouts/page-3#entry312430
  • He-111 H-16's side MG15 turrets should be MG81 (http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/24271-historically-inaccurate-loadouts/#entry268145) http://www.scribd.com/doc/124357408/Heinkel-He-111-H-11-H-14-und-H-16-Bedienungsvorschrift-Wa-Schusswaffenanlage-Januar-1943 H-16 manual pg14
  • F2A-1 250 and 250rpg should be 200x .50cal and 600x .30cal
  • Fw 190 A-5's MG FF wing guns should have 60 rpg, not 55
  • Spitfire II should be called Spitfire IIb to designate its B-type wing with Hispano 20mm loadout
  • Fw-190 A-5/U3 should just be called A-5 since we now have access to 3 Umbau versions
  • XP-55, Armament was originally 2x 20mm, 2x.50cal which was later changed to 4x.50cal. Version ingame has 2x 20mm, 4x.50 cal
  • Bf-110 C-4 should have MG FF/M not just MG FF (this gives them access to mine shells
  • Do 217 E-4 should have MG FF/M not just MG FF%5B1%5D, %5B2%5D
  • Ju-87D and G, rear gunner should have dual MG (MG 81 Zwilling), instead of the single MG81 they have now%5B1%5D
  • Fw 190 A-5, 7.92mm 1000 rpg should be 900 rpg%5B1%5D
  • All Bf109 with 20mm Motorkanone, 150 rounds should be 200 rounds%5B1%5D, %5B2%5D
  • Bf 109 K-4, 30mm 150 rpg should be 65 rpg, 20mm 150 rpg should be 135 rpg
  • Bf 109 G-6, 30mm 180 rounds should be 135 rounds (65 in nose, 2x 35 in wings)%5B1%5D, %5B2%5D
  • F4U-1c has 880 rounds of cannon, this should be 924http://www.webcitation.org/getfile.php?fileid=c5ceede1a08e7b46077533b17a56049b0023dddd
  • P-40E-1 2550 rounds should be 1410 (6x 235rpg)%5B1%5D
  • Spitfire IX 20mm 60rpg should be 120rpghttp://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2
  • A6M3 (m32) 20mm 60 rpg should be 100 rpg
  • A6M2-N 20mm 100 rpg should be 60 rpg
  • A6M2 20mm 100 rpg should be 60 rpg
  • Mustang Mk Ia, 1260 cannon rounds is absurd, early Mustangs (B/C) had 4x 50 cals with 1260 rounds of ammo, this is probably where the 1260 value comes from. Not sure what historical 20mm ammo count was.%5B1%5D
  • 7.92mm/7.62mm/.303/.50cal MG bullets with HE shells? The smallest caliber MG HE rounds used in WW2 I know of were MG131, small 8mm caliber HE shells makes no sensehttp://www.scribd.com/doc/77566715/Munitions-Fur-Flieger-Bordwaffen-L-dv-4000-10 Luftwaffe Munitions Handbook, pg30~59 lists 7.92mm ammunition, no HE bullets
  • F-86A-5 should be loaded out with AN/M3 not AN/M2 like the other American planes. The difference is 1200RPM vs M2's 800RPM. F-86's burst mass is the same as other American planes with 6x M2
  • Tempest V had the guns upgraded from Hispano II to Hispano V which had higher RoF but ingame has the same burst mass as Typhoons with 4x Hispano II
  • Fw 190 A-5 should have 2x MG151/20 cannons on the wings (for a total of 4 cannons) [removed because Fw190A-5 ingame is a jabo]http://www.avialogs.com/en/component/k2/item/2934-2052todo Fw 190 A5/A6 aircraft manual pg12
  • Bf 109 G-2 should be called Bf 109 G-2/trop to denote it's air filter
  • Bf109 K-4 should be called Bf 109 K-4/R4 to indicate the MG151/20 wing pod cannons
  • Bf109 G-6 should be called Bf 109 G-6/U4/R5 for it's 30mm center and gondola cannons
  • Fw 190 A-5 should be called Fw 190 A-5/U3 to designate it as a Jabo (and explain it's 2 missing wing cannons)
  • Bf109 G-10 still has 150 instead of 200 20mm rounds

[/spoiler]

Edited by Muleo
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The Ju-88's front MG operated by the Co-pilot, can be fixed. In the game technicly, it should be operated by the pilot while flying the plane in pilot view.

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Great stuff - the fact that you've backed it up with primary source evidence makes your info very useable. Thanks for taking the time in typing this up; I'll make sure it is brought to the attention of the relevant people.

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Found a few more sources and added a few more issues.

Don't forget FW 190 A-5 should also have two 20mm mg/FF

Ah yea, forgot about that and other 'strange' loadouts, thanks.

The Ju-88's front MG operated by the Co-pilot, can be fixed. In the game technicly, it should be operated by the pilot while flying the plane in pilot view.

But how would that work in terms of game mechanics? The front gun is on a swivel mount, how will a player fly the plane and operate the gun at the same time?

I'll make sure it is brought to the attention of the relevant people.

Awesome

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The A6M Zero could mount 2x60kg bombs under the wings.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Zeke-32-TAIC-102C.pdf

(second page, in the middle: Bombs - Cargo)

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Zeke-52-TAIC-102D.pdf

 

and I found in some books and some webpages, that they could mount a single 250kg bomb, but no true document about that...

 

Edit: One thing that I remember is, after reading your Lancaster-issue, that appearantly the bombloads differ from bomber to bomber from Longrange bombload to maximum bombload.

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Well done Mule. I think this thread deserves to be pinned, so I'll be doing that just now. :3

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The A6M Zero could mount 2x60kg bombs under the wings.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Zeke-32-TAIC-102C.pdf

(second page, in the middle: Bombs - Cargo)

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Zeke-52-TAIC-102D.pdf

There's too many planes with missing/incomplete ordnance so I'll just list them simply at the end of the post for now

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There's too many planes with missing/incomplete ordnance so I'll just list them simply at the end of the post for now

*thumbs up*

 

BTW, Big thanks for your work, for collecting this datas and proof them with documents.

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Nice proper thread backing up the *wish* and *request* for consideration and changes. Thanks for the link, a load more free time to get lost in information :) 

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Great stuff, keep 'em coming guys! Work is already well underway on the next update, and whilst I certainly can't promise that any of this will be changed in the next few weeks, I'll make sure the right guys in the Development team know about this thread. Thanks again!

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Ju88A4 Belly Gun (C Stand) Should be a MG81Z aswell
 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49207725/1941-L-Dv-T-2088-A-4-und-D-1-Wa-Ju-88-A-4-und-D-1-Bedienungsvorschrift-Wa-Bedienung-und-Wartung-der-Schusswaffenanlage

Added to the list, thanks

On the He111 H16 it should be a Mg81Z aswell instead of those 2 MG15 it has at the moment.
 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/124357408/Heinkel-He-111-H-11-H-14-und-H-16-Bedienungsvorschrift-Wa-Schusswaffenanlage-Januar-1943

H-16 already has a MG81Z, it's listed as '1x turret of MG 81 x2'
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Oh yea my bad. I meant the MG15 on the sides should be changed to MG81

Ah, added.
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"F-86A-5 should be loaded out with AN/M2 not AN/M3 like the other American planes. The difference is 1200RPM vs M2's 800RPM. F-86's burst mass is the same as other American planes with 6x M2
Tempest V had the guns upgraded from Hispano II to Hispano V which had higher RoF but ingame has the same burst mass as Typhoons with 4x Hispano II"

 

Shouldn't that be the other way around? "F-86A-5 should be loaded out with AN/M3 not AN/M2 like the other American planes."

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"F-86A-5 should be loaded out with AN/M2 not AN/M3 like the other American planes. The difference is 1200RPM vs M2's 800RPM. F-86's burst mass is the same as other American planes with 6x M2
Tempest V had the guns upgraded from Hispano II to Hispano V which had higher RoF but ingame has the same burst mass as Typhoons with 4x Hispano II"

 

Shouldn't that be the other way around? "F-86A-5 should be loaded out with AN/M3 not AN/M2 like the other American planes."

Yup, fixed.

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Ju-88 wrong bomb load, carry a MAX of 26x 50Kg bombs, not 32

18x in front, 8x in rear bays, and even then ONLY if it did not carry external bombs.

Supposedly operational missions had 4x 250Kg and 10x 50Kg, 1500kg total (but never found photo proof, yet)

Most times I believe the forward bay was fitted with fuel tank.

 

Image1.jpg

In this load out chat NO 50Kg bombs are loaded, however can see a 2x 500kg and 2x 250kg load out.

Again, I suspect operationally the LW went away from using 50kg in 88's for more fuel.

From here.

 

rustsatzC.jpgmidfuselage-2.jpg

 

As to the rear gunner, the double-bubble as seen in game always mounted 2 MG81 (by this time it was 81, but a few early, early A-4's might have had MG15's).

(this one is a later version with armored rings)

 

Ju88_cockpit_hood.jpg

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Very interesting discussion, and it seems rather strange to me why gunpods havnt been introduced for german planes, as a way to counter the rising amount of allied planes with a huge amount of guns (not to mention the high rof).

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just incase you are all interested, or are looking for some information on american planes this site ( national museum of the US Air force :P ) goes from a little before 1930 all the way to a little past 1962, with everything in-between muahaha :)

 

nationalmuseum.af.mil

 

has:

 

Attack Aircraft
Bomber Aircraft
Cargo Aircraft
Fighter Aircraft
Pursuit Aircraft

 

anyways, enjoy :)

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Bf 110 C-4 should have MG FF/Ms to my knowledge, currently it cannot use minengeschoss.

 

Also, why are minengeshoss rounds always listed as HEI? They were purely an HE round, with

different rounds being developed to fire HEI compounds.

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Bf 110 C-4 should have MG FF/Ms to my knowledge, currently it cannot use minengeschoss.

Thanks, added to list

Also, why are minengeshoss rounds always listed as HEI? They were purely an HE round, with
different rounds being developed to fire HEI compounds.

Yeah I'm a little annoyed by that too, mine shells should be HE(M), HEI were different shells

MG151-20_ammo_mine.jpg

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You're obviously much better at research than I am, so here's a few things I've come across (but can't give super-reliable sources for) for you to consider: Beaufighters Mk VIc historically had 6x .30 cal machine guns in the wings in addition to their cannon and could be fitted with eight 90 lb rockets (currently they have 60 lb RP-3) and 2x 250 lb bombs.  Also, if it is to carry a torpedo, it should also have dive brakes.  The Mk X ingame should also be renamed Beaufighter TF X as it is a torpedo fighter variant. 

 

http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/post-war-military-aircraft/beau/beau.html

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52179180/1944-Air-Publication-1721F-H-J-Pilot-s-Notes-for-Beaufighter-Mark-VI-Two-Hercules-VI-Engines-Marks-TFX-XI-Two-Hercules-XVII-Engines

 

Also, the Beaufighter Mk 21 should get 8x HVAR (not RP-3 as currently ingame), 2x 250 lb bombs, 2x 500 lb bombs and 1x Mk13 torpedo (not Mk 12 as currently ingame).

 

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/beaufighter.html

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