Warlord1981NL

How does the match maker work?

185 posts in this topic

Hey all,

 

First of all, I would appreciate it very much if this wouldn't be turned into a whine thread about reducing the BR spread. THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. JUST DON'T DO THAT OK? Thank you.

 

I'm getting sick and tired of constantly being uptiered. So my battle rating +1.0 is what I play against. This is not 50% of the time or 75% of the time. This happens 100% guaranteed whenever I equip something other than a pure reserve vehicles and that by itself is annoying enough, but for some reasonthe match maker also feels it's neccesary to make me have to play with inexperienced players constantly. This goes both for tanks and aircraft. It is not fun to play like this all the time. Sure, I don't mind a challenge but after months of this crap I would like to play some battles against my own battle rating or be down tiered for once.

 

A long hard think leads me to believe that the player level is taken into account (can't imagine any other reason but I could be wrong) when the match maker decides which players to put in a team and against which team that team should play. If true, I want this removed. Just because I have played this game more than others, and as such know a thing or two about what to do and what not to do, that doesn't mean that I should stuck with the people who do not know how to play all the time or bought their way up in rank AND get pitted against vastly superior equipment every single game.

 

It gets tiresome after a while and I am reaching the point where this dumb crap simply has become frustrating and just isn't fun anymore. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it if it just happened on occassion like for example get uptiered, play at my own battle rating and get then downtiered in a (semi-random) cycle. But that is not the case for me. So my question is, HOW exactly does match maker determine what people I get teamed up with and how it determines what I am going to be facing? Something needs to be done about this.

 

Kind regards,

 

Warlord1981NL

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am aware of that post but that is not the question I am posing.

 

"So my question is, HOW exactly does match maker determine what people I get teamed up with and how it determines what I am going to be facing?"

 

Let me rephrase the question: What statistics is the matchmaker using to make teams and deciding who I will be facing in a game?

 

It is not just tier and BR. There have to be others to explain what I am experiencing while others do not have the experience I have.

Edited by Warlord1981NL
5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it looks at your recent performance, and the overall calculated BR of your vehicles. I'm doubtful it is taking much else into account. I know your BR can be adjusted if you are particularly skilled or unskilled at the game, but I believe this is only a .3 or so modifier.

 

I don't think Player Level is taken into account. With how large their pool of vehicles is to match make with, I'd sincerely believe it isn't using too many variables.

 

I can't say why you are always at the low end of the 1BR spread - have you tried using different vehicle setups? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MM uses: br, tier, queue variables (how many +/-1.0br are in the queue), player variables (recent performance, efficiency, etc)

 

If you are playing +1.0 br alot. Then lucky for you the MM has you down as a good player, unlucky for you it uses a lot of these "good players" to fill up higher rated games.

 

Basically if you want good MM there are certain tier & br combinations that you can use to nulify the player variables which affect MM - due to queue variables having more of an effect on MM.

 

2.0 tanks

3.3 tanks

6.7 tanks

 

2.7 br planes t1/t2

4.0br planes t2/t3

6.0br planes t4

 

There's some more aswell.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're getting +1.0 BR matches constantly then it certainly doesn't work based on a players skill. Even though you're most likely (99.9999%+) exaggerating, as you've shown no proof or whatsoever, so we can just simply disregard it immediately.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're getting +1.0 BR matches constantly then it certainly doesn't work based on a players skill. Even though you're most likely (99.9999%+) exaggerating, as you've shown no proof or whatsoever, so we can just simply disregard it immediately.

Try playing 2.7 tanks or 5.7 tanks and have a look at the br's you are seeing.

 

Nublets will get better MM at those levels than us 'better' players.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skill based MM is a myth. 0 evidence to support that theory. Until actual evidence is provided, this is confirmation bias.

It depends what you class as skill.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All we have to work with is what Gaijin tells us about the system, which, as far as I know is supposed to have a small alteration to your overall BR based on your performance. 

To be entirely honest, I hate BR posts. The system is complicated enough that we constantly see people coming to complain only to find out they are doing some minute thing wrong that is boosting them up (vehicle lineup, bad math, downright lying about what vehicles are being used).

 

I left this one because I wanted to answer his question but I believe how the BR system works has already been plastered around the forum in many other places and obviously discussed to a greater length elsewhere.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

 Budikah, tnx for your answers.

 

All we have to work with is what Gaijin tells us about the system, which, as far as I know is supposed to have a small alteration to your overall BR based on your performance. 

...

 

... but I believe how the BR system works has already been plastered around the forum in many other places and obviously discussed to a greater length elsewhere.

 

The problem is that the MM is still a mistery. You only can tell that "is supposed". It should be a clear explanation of the MM system, similar to the one which explain the BR calculation.

 

 

Many of us suspect there are an influence of your pefformance in the next battles. It's really dificult to win more than 3 battles in a row. It's not only that you can enter in a battle BR+1 to your BR, aparently you join the low BR team, and/or the system give more "luck" to the winner team (the red one)

 

Sorry, but no. There are many posts around the forum, but anybody knows how the MM run.

For example someting like this:

Each player start the day? month? with 0 performance level. The set of planes/tanks has a BR level for the MM.(formula of the link)

The MM order the players queue list  with the BR-MM. If there are enought players with the same BR-MM a battle start. THis player are deleted from the queue. The MM continues from the next player to create the 2nd battle.

At the end of the first circle it could be players in the queue waiting for a battle. If the diference of MM-BR is below 1 the MM create new battles.

If a player win a battle his performance will have an increment of 0,1. If he lose a battle the performance will subtract -0,1. The BR-MM for next battles will add the performance to the BR-MM

....

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the match maker doesn't work worth a F**K, when I constantly play level one tanks and see level three an four tanks on the same map, that tells me that the mm is screwed up as it always has been.  Same with planes, be flying level or tier two planes and constantly see tier four planes on the map, the MM is screwed because the BR is screwed up as well, no one wants a simplified system where it is easier to maintain no the cheats what it this way so they can find the loopholes that will give them the edge when it comes to bringing higher tier planes and tanks into lower tier matches.  I offered a simple workable solution months ago but no one seemed interested or concerned, mainly because it would work too well and the cheats could no longer find a loop hole which would force them to play on the same level as everyone else, on an equal basis.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the match maker doesn't work worth a F**K, when I constantly play level one tanks and see level three an four tanks on the same map, that tells me that the mm is screwed up as it always has been.  Same with planes, be flying level or tier two planes and constantly see tier four planes on the map, the MM is screwed because the BR is screwed up as well, no one wants a simplified system where it is easier to maintain no the cheats what it this way so they can find the loopholes that will give them the edge when it comes to bringing higher tier planes and tanks into lower tier matches.  I offered a simple workable solution months ago but no one seemed interested or concerned, mainly because it would work too well and the cheats could no longer find a loop hole which would force them to play on the same level as everyone else, on an equal basis.

 

Please, could you provide one screenshot where your line-up is only tier I and you have tier IV opponents?

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the match maker doesn't work worth a F**K, when I constantly play level one tanks and see level three an four tanks on the same map, that tells me that the mm is screwed up as it always has been.  Same with planes, be flying level or tier two planes and constantly see tier four planes on the map, the MM is screwed because the BR is screwed up as well, no one wants a simplified system where it is easier to maintain no the cheats what it this way so they can find the loopholes that will give them the edge when it comes to bringing higher tier planes and tanks into lower tier matches.  I offered a simple workable solution months ago but no one seemed interested or concerned, mainly because it would work too well and the cheats could no longer find a loop hole which would force them to play on the same level as everyone else, on an equal basis.

I can't believe you have played that many battles and still seem to fail to grasp the MM.

 

Yes it's annoying that Gaijin have never explained it, but it's not rocket science to work out.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I will just call it black magic but it seems this way to me anyways. I feel like the higher your win rate is the worse it places you. I don't know what this magical number cut off is. But I have noticed that when I join a group of people 60 percent win rate or below it seems they suddenly start crying that the game is harder for some reason my over all win rat is 60 percent an I fluctuate between 80 an 75 monthly currently would be better if I stay away from these dumb events:) However most of us at above 60 percent of better I think never really notice as to us it is a target rich environment with the only exception being if you play 6.3 as you hit jets more often. My suggestions is if you just want to troll the easy life do like all the others who are frustrated run something like a IL4 or some other low tier bomber with laggs an seal club to your hearts content. Not my cup of tea though I prefer a good fight. 

Most people have Confirmation bias as well as remembering only the bad while not talking of the good.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A unique example of player variables having an effect today:

 

Playing 2.0 br T2 planes:

 

We had a guy with an la5f on our team, they had a guy with a p47 on their team.

 

Both players had win loss under 50 percent (both at 47 percent) - both weren't bad players their service record just indicated that they focused on airkills instead of objectives.

 

Whilst this isn't definitive proof that there are player-based MM effects at work. I have never been in a 2.0 to 3.0 game in my p47 or my la5f and I have far better efficiency and win rate. My kills per game werent much higher.

 

Anyone who suggests that MM doesn't have player variables effecting it obviously hasn't encountered this. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the Matchmaking is very good at all, it got so frustrating that I decided to make a new account and start over, and yet I am starting to encounter the same promblems again.

 

While I have seen some over-tier issues with planes, they are not my biggest complaint. Let's say one guy has a 3.3 plane, a 3.0 plane, and a 2.7 plane....this guy will have a BR of 3.0 and gets put in the same battles as a guy at 2.0, with nothing but 2.0 planes. How can this be considered fair, right, or enjoyable  ? ( I'm sure it's enjoyable to the guy with the 3.3 plane :P )

 

My biggest complaint is being put in the same battles as people dozens of levels above you, with maxed-out planes and crews. I only got to level 8 on my first account, and I was still learning to target, learning basic maneuvers, and yet I was being put in the same battles as level 100 players with spaded planes and maxed- out crews. There's always a couple people with like 10 kills, and when you look them up, it's no wonder, this is rediculous  !

 

Yes IT IS an L2P issue ! The problem is...the matchmaking in WT doesn't make for a fun or enjoyable Learning experience for begginners. I'd love to L2P in a better enviornment.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been for months Gaijin could have reduced the BR spread to 0.7 max... But they won't.

 

Feels like bleeding players continuously seems a better choice for now.

 

Ps : and there isn't any "player efficiency" based matchmaking, some BR are good for you, some BR are bad, and yes the ranks still have impact on it.

 

For example : BR 4.3-4.0 Rb is one of the best possible you could play... But it also means BR 3.3-3.0 will be awfull, the same way 4.7 will often be here to feed 5.7 griffons...

That's the way it is, you need people to feed the glorious legions of russian BR 4.0. Yeah, we really need a BR spread's reduction to 0.7, a bit more way, but a lot of balance added to the game and a lot of satisfaction.

Edited by Leandrys
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a nutshell it works like this...

 

Bad players meet "smaller" planes to make sure they never improve and good player meet "larger" planes to make sure they get annoyed.

 

:facepalm:

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skill based MM is a myth. 0 evidence to support that theory. Until actual evidence is provided, this is confirmation bias.


It is confirmed.
The mm looks at the player efficiency. Play well and you're a bottom feeder about...always.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think they use the same system as the reward wheel that's used now for the trophy prizes. How else was there a p51 in the match I was playing where half the ppl were in biplanes?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they use the same system as the reward wheel that's used now for the trophy prizes. How else was there a p51 in the match I was playing where half the ppl were in biplanes?

 

Dude, this doesn't even make sense. Seriously. I've -NEVER- had a game with broken MM like that. It's either a catostrophic yet totally rare bug that happens, or somebudy dun goofed.

 

The only way you would see a P-51 in a match with biplanes is if...

 

1. You are squadded or have a higher tier plane in your lineup that is making your BR jump to that of the P-51

2. It's Arcade and bi-planes are all people have left after all their other vehicles die.

 

Nobody takes complaints like the one you just posted seriously without a screenshot.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
he mm looks at the player efficiency. Play well and you're a bottom feeder about...always. 

 

 

If that is true, playing well must affect team composition. I get spates of really bad teams, the ones who push up at the start of the game and then die in the spawn for the rest of it. The matchmaker also has a habit of allowing players with very low tiers in (most probably through squad abuse the same as World of Tanks). I was on for an hour or two yesterday and nearly every match the team we were in was completely outmatched, in that the other team had far higher tier tanks than we did. For example one match had us with a few 6.7 tanks against a team filled with them. Another higher tier match we were thrown into had the enemy team with 6 BR 7+ tanks against are 3. Although we did have 3 Kugelblitzs which I believed broke the MM. 

 

I also believe you are more likely to get bumped into a higher tier if you play in a squad. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully this post made recently by Senio will help you understand.

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/224493-updated-br-calculation-for-arcade-air-battles/#entry4321159

while the BR is suppose to work that way, the mm screws it up by constantly matching tier five planes with tier three prop planes and tier five tanks with tier three tanks, I see it every day all day long, so don't tell me that your BR and MM work because they don't.  I am tired of playing upper tier three planes only to have battle jets or take out my tier two or tier three tanks to have to battle tier four or tier five tanks, the system has a flaw somewhere but the dev's either aren't looking for it or they don't care and are just going to leave it as it is because they see nothing wrong with it, for the last three years they have been complaining about the BR and MM and it still doesn't work and there has been no serious attempts to fix it.  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.