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Ottobon accepted to give us tips on how fly this plane in the old griffon thread, he's going to do to so in the new thread so that if someone is searching help on how to fly the I 185 would actually find it (really, who would search informations for it in the Griffon thread).

 

Sorry if i started this like, 7 hours later but at the time for me it was 4 AM and i was going to fall on the keyboard :P

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Well I have not flown it much but from what I heard It is a BnZ plane that excels at high altitudes and high speed.It is really well controlable in high speed dives.But it sucks at low altitude and can not turn fight well.
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Well I have not flown it much but from what I heard It is a BnZ plane that excels at high altitudes and high speed.It is really well controlable in high speed dives.But it sucks at low altitude and can not turn fight well.

 

3000m is the optimal altitude, nor lower neither higher. Also, its elevator is not suitable for high speed (600kph+ IAS) booms, rather, medium speed booms. Roll rate is great, as you said, turn is abysmal. 

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Well I have not flown it much but from what I heard It is a BnZ plane that excels at high altitudes and high speed.It is really well controlable in high speed dives.But it sucks at low altitude and can not turn fight well.

its a fat Mig with better guns, ive never liked it much but thats not really because its a bad plane, more because im bad at flying it.

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Oh boy, Otto is going to make an extra long post this time. As the entire thread has been made in his honour.

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Oh boy, Otto is going to make an extra long post this time. As the entire thread has been made in his honour.

 I do hope so... for some reason, this one is a fighter I always had problems with. Could be just baaad teams, but I'd rather not assume that and instead learn how to employ it correctly. 

 

/summoning Ottobon

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Fly it like you would fly an 190A. Simple as that. They have quite similar flight performances, especially the t3 i185. Only difference 190 handles better at higher speeds.

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  • 2 months later...

I was supposed to bump this so I'm bumping this before i take-off because its way overdue and I'm finally satisfied that the FM the I-185 M71 has right now will be similar for atleast some time. No time to be entertaining or funny so I'll just give it straight and sorry but I'm trying to keep it short :/... I can make short replys though throughout weekend, limited by mobile phone (hard to type long posts there) after this post

 

 

So what is the I-185 M71 good at?  Lets go through this catagorically so my tired mind doesn't ramble too hard!  I will say once that MEC is important on this plane, specifically related to its high speed climbing abilities i will mention, this is true with all large radial engined planes.  Look up Crouching Walrus'es Youtube video on it if you want to learn how to use it with Mouse-aim, it gets easy to manage and do after about a week (and on I-185 just run 45% mixture right now)

 

 

Speed:  In this regard your really missing the point of the I-185 M71 if you just look at its datasheet which lists 600kph at SL and 680kph at Altitude.  What makes the I-185 M71 special is its speed from 1000 meters up to basically critical altitude of its first supercharger gear (about 3.5km)!  A La-7 is very fast at 1.8km for example and can do about 650kph there, the I-185 M71 one-ups that by going about 645 at 1000 meters, 652 at 2000 meters, and about 660kph at 3000 meters.  For this altitude range this is very fast so long as your not facing your top tier opponents like Tempest IIs (which are insane and go 720kph starting at 3.5km, because they are insane, because Britannia)  Speed above 4km is nothing notable but tops out at 6.3km iirc

 

Climb:  This is similar again to speed in regards to altitude range, up to 3.5km your a complete powerhouse and actually are on of the few planes that can climb like a F8F-1B (hey you've got 2200hp and weigh 1 tonne lighter, so why wouldn't you?!?) Numbers are about 27 M/S to 2km dropping slightly to about 26 M/S to 3 and then taking a crap above 4km where its realistically about 19 M/S till 6km where it again drops to about 16 M/S and keeps dropping... You can simply climb to 7km if you want and may find success playing it that way, but i find more success starting at about 5.5km, then dragging people to about 3km while going super fast letting them get distracted by team, then beating them all up again (or similar with varied energy fighting techniques if 1v1)

 

Climbspeed: This plane is weird and seems to love to climb at 290kph still, for a brief moment it liked 275kph a few patches back, but its back to liking 290kph or even 300kph again particularly in first supercharger gear.  My recommendation is to never drop below 280kph (and use about that once above 4km).... Hell if you want further proof of the fact it likes high climb speeds accelerate to 400kph, hold about 11 degrees, and then watch as you fly by and then climb with other planes on your team, this plane loves high speed climb and accells at it (especially with MEC/Radiators closed) its a really important thing about this aircraft

 

Energy Retention: Well something i can confirm is that this plane is amazing at climbing at high speed, generating great speeds below 3.5km.  Like a FW 190 use shallow angles in dives and zooms when possible to keep speed and energy as your playground is at low altitude, and people always forget that if you can't get the highground being super-fast is easily as valuable, this plane is epic at that. 

 

Maneuverability: Low speed turning is crap but flaps can help you turn with mediocre planes fairly well, however thats not ideal, what is more ideal is learning to use the roll rate in all its forms. Whether for leading quick deflection shots at high speed or getting yourself out of trouble by using rolling scissors (actual ideal time to use flaps).  Just remember the elevator stiffens when you go beyond about 640kph (not horribly, but does get stiff), so if you need to go defensive you may want to throttle down a bit really and kick the rudder a little so you can actually do the whole rolling scissors thing.  I really love this part of the plane because it makes the whole aircraft feel like a FW 190 Anton that been turned up to 11....It does turn okay at about 400kph with Take-off flaps out but this bleeds speed like crazy, so only use it if you have to (say a Griffon Mk22/24 shows up and doing this will 90% chance of kill it)

 

 

 

So yeah thats basically what you need to know, besides forcing rolling scissors and staying fast at lower altitudes rather then staying super high (although simple climbing can work if your top tier) remember that low angles and high speeds are your friend in climbing and diving as you are great at that, and if you really want to unlock this magic its important to use MEC, or atleast take time to cool the engine quite a bit so cowl-flaps ("radiator) stay closed if you don't use MEC

 

I really like "interceptor" climbing in this plane, meaning accelerating up to 400kph+ (up to 450 sometimes), angling up to about 11 degree (or go into cockpit, note variometers, just climb at 25 M/S while staying fast), and then climbing straight at the enemy and intercepting them before they get to high altitude, it screws with people hard and completely messes up the enemy teams positioning if you can pull it off, but its a bit risky... Its the most legitimate if your near top tier, if yoru bottom tier (6.0-6.3 match) then maybe just climb normal and hang a bit back, attack enemies once everybody is engaging everybody, maybe even sideclimb in anticipation of this. 

 

 

I will also link this video of Lemsko flying a D-13 because if when it comes to "offensive maneuver fights" you want to pull low-Gs and use your speed and large radius to just stay ontop of people, its like large energy fight looping basically, or key part is that you don't pull high Gs at all when doing this offensively until your below 400kph, at which point if at the top of the loop throw out take-off flaps and come down fast and hard on opponent. 

 

its hard to describe so i recommend just watching the video a little till you see what i mean

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHIe9ZHaq-Y

Edited by Ottobon
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  • 10 months later...

Ottobon, it is quite some time that you have made your flying tips on the I-185 M-71, my question is if the flight model is still relatively similar, if it changed, is there any chance of an update?

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Ottobon, it is quite some time that you have made your flying tips on the I-185 M-71, my question is if the flight model is still relatively similar, if it changed, is there any chance of an update?

 

Its still the same as before, actually in a way its better because one doesn't need to use too much radiato to keep it running cool, very little in comparison to other fast aircraft with as high of a power to weight, so the high speed energy retention/zoom climbing at low altitude bit is still there

Edited by Ottobon
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I wasn't much of a fan of this plane until I decided to actually grind it out. I personally fly it like I would fly a Tempest. Shallow high speed climbs and attacking planes who don't expect you to have enough energy to attack them.

It's very easy to catch the enemy team still climbing. You are like the pace car of the match. Interrupt their climbs and your allies in more maneuverable aircraft will have an easy game. It is a very good bait plane since you are much faster than most of the planes you face. I do it all the time to lure half the enemy team low. Even if I die it's still fun for me knowing that I just sealed the fate of everyone who decided to chase me.
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  • 11 months later...

/summon Ottobon

Otto, I know this is somewhat off topic, but, I got extremely used to flying the M71 variant, I have amazing games with it, but when I tried going back to the M82 one, something I wasn't getting right, I'm not sure what is about it, but I try to fly the same as I do with the M71, and it simply does NOT work. Any help with it, PLEASEEEE...??

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M82 has less engine power than the m71 gotta be moar carefull with your manuevers... Keep some speed in your Turns, no need to do full elevator turns all the time.

Fly it less agressive. The m82 is a lot of fun, good fighter at 4.0!

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On 28.4.2017 at 7:30 PM, LuizBarros99 said:

/summon Ottobon

Otto, I know this is somewhat off topic, but, I got extremely used to flying the M71 variant, I have amazing games with it, but when I tried going back to the M82 one, something I wasn't getting right, I'm not sure what is about it, but I try to fly the same as I do with the M71, and it simply does NOT work. Any help with it, PLEASEEEE...??

Sadly, Ottobon left us mortal War Thunder players behind for the heavens in his I-185 M-71 and now only rarely looks down upon the world that is War Thunder. :((no, he's not dead, I'm just being theatrical)

 

Anyway, the I-185 M82... the M82 part is the difference, that's the name of the engine. It's the same engine that the La-5 series uses, and has the very same performance characteristics at the same altitudes, unlike the M71 engine. Read the part of Otto's post where he describes the difference between the I-185 M71 and the La-7, then apply the given information about the La-7's performance altitude to the I-185 airframe.

 

To put it bluntly, the M82 can't go up above 3-4km as easily and of course does not possess the same excellent Power/Weight ratio as the M71 variant, so you have to be more conservative with your speed and avoid any fights at altitudes above 4km. Your optimal combat altitude is 1.8km. The opponents you face in the BR 4.0 I-185 M82 naturally are better at turning, too, which excerbates the need to NOT engage in slow, protracted dogfights in the horizontal. Your acceleration is still excellent compared to the opposition unless you decide to climb above 3.2 - 3.7km where the second supercharger gear kicks in and WEP deactivates. The exact switch altitude is dependant on your airspeed... the faster you go, the later the charger gear switches because of the RAM air effect.

 

It's crucial to NOT slow down in M82 engined fighters when in second gear, because you simply don't have the acceleration anymore to quickly recover lost energy, unless you dive hard. Going into the vertical against a Bf 109 at altitude is suicidal, in the I-185 M82 even more so than in the La's, because the I-185 has smaller wings and thus a higher stall speed. The 109 will walk all over you up there if you play his climbing spiral/loop game, and so will most Spitfires and japanese fighters you can meet. They are superior to you in that regard at altitude... and the higher you go, the worse this gets.

 

Oh by the way... Interceptor Climbing like Otto described, equipped with 8 RS-82 rockets, is an excellent way to ruin any enemy bombers day. Get directly in front of them, FIRE ALL ZE MISSILES, and watch the parts rain down. :016:

Edited by SD501st
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  • 1 month later...

Oh, BTW too, I think the M71 got a REALLY nice buff, now, at least to me, I have access to WEP on the SECOND super charger gear, so I think now this plane can be considered to high altitude fights too, even tho it would be more benefitial to try to have the fights taking place at lower altitudes.

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19 hours ago, LuizBarros99 said:

Oh, BTW too, I think the M71 got a REALLY nice buff, now, at least to me, I have access to WEP on the SECOND super charger gear, so I think now this plane can be considered to high altitude fights too, even tho it would be more benefitial to try to have the fights taking place at lower altitudes.

 

its been that way for maybe 6 months but yes, unlike the M82 radials (La-5 to La-11, and first I-185) it works in both S/C gears.  Flew it around a bit and it still has the fantatic low speed accel and climbrate, with insane speed retention that i loved.  All that plus the flaps are surprisingly good so radius is more important then energy state in a instant you can seize on it.

 

Now that the FW 190 Antons have completely revised FMs i think this is a better time then ever to pick up this aircraft, it has all of what the old (and honestly overpowered) FW 190s had plus more in a airframe and engine that would actually produce those results.  Forgetting the fact the M71 was really one of the more troubled piston engines played with in WWII i think its well worth trying if one hasn't.  If more people would just hang in and get past the horrid stock grind.  

Quick MEC tip:  Just like the Typhoon/Tempest and R2800 Radials of the Americans, if you use MEC run 40% or less on rads with 100% 'oil radiator', alot less drag then 100%+100% rads but it will still practically never overheat

Edited by Ottobon
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10 hours ago, Ottobon said:

 

its been that way for maybe 6 months but yes, unlike the M82 radials (La-5 to La-11, and first I-185) it works in both S/C gears.

 

I don't know if it's because the original M-82 had different WEP settings than the M-82FN, but I can use WEP in both gears in the I-185 (M-82). Dunno about the La-5, need to check.

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  • 1 month later...

Hey, any tips on I-185 M-71 vs P-51? SPECIALLY THE D-30s! At low alt, they seem to out do me, at least in speed, and if I'm not mistaking, also in turning(well, once I had one P-51 D either a D5; 10 or 20 being able to sustain a prongued low altitude horizontal turnfight against my Yak 3P, that with me doing all the tricks in my sleeve to attempt to win...) and I'm pretty sure that with their amazing engines, they can out climb me, and accelerate more than me...

TL;DR: How do I win I-185 M-71 vs P-51 D(consider worst case scenario, D30) AT SAME ALTITUDE AND ENERGY, AND IF YOU SAY TO TRY TO GET ABOVE HIM, STATE IF I HAVE BETTER, OR WORSE CLIMB RATE THAN HIM, so I know if I will end the climb with an energy advantege, if he tries to follow me, or if I need to GET HIM DISTRACTED and get climbing WITHOUT HIM NOTICING ME.

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The d30 is an extreme powerhouse, it will outmatch lots of planes in terms of speed regardlesd the alitude.

 

One things mustangs really hate is going slow. As the m71 has a better pwr you can lure him into a slow siccor fight. If its a pure 1v1. And use landing flaps + better roll below 300kph ias. Then u can either try to go into a sharp spiral climb and drop onto him, or make him overshoot.

 

Mustangs need high speed to generate lift, they got a really slim wing profile which reduces drag but also needs a higher airflow to generate sufficent lift.

 

A slow mustang is a dead one!

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  • 1 month later...
On 28/07/2017 at 9:16 AM, KoocieKoo said:

The d30 is an extreme powerhouse, it will outmatch lots of planes in terms of speed regardlesd the alitude.

 

One things mustangs really hate is going slow. As the m71 has a better pwr you can lure him into a slow siccor fight. If its a pure 1v1. And use landing flaps + better roll below 300kph ias. Then u can either try to go into a sharp spiral climb and drop onto him, or make him overshoot.

 

Mustangs need high speed to generate lift, they got a really slim wing profile which reduces drag but also needs a higher airflow to generate sufficent lift.

 

A slow mustang is a dead one!

Interesting, I will give it a try. Also seems that in a spaded I-185 M-71, I have a better climb than the D-30. (pretty much kinda like a MiG-15BIS vs a F86 Sabre; the MiG/I-185 has better climb, while the other is faster, and possibly turns better, only difference when comparing to jet combat is that the MiG does not have the best roll, at least at speeds.)

But I can only say Rest In Pieces, once the P51 H is finally introduced. (Because it potentially can go toe to toe with even a Spitfire mk. 24, which is 6.7, but at least in the dev server, it had a BR of 5.7, so since the soviets are almost 24/7 vs USA/UK, RIP)

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