Fins_FinsT

F1 WT: Fins' hangar (ангар Финса) - english/русский

190 posts in this topic

Gelesztaa, hi there! Thank you, i know; some few folks call me "racing maniac", yeah... I kinda am. :)

I am much curious, though: that fast lap of yours, was it done with diving? If so, what's your best no-dive time? And if that 4:51 is no-dive lap, then what aircraft and what control method you use? Because 4:51 no-dive is quite very good, man, you know? :)

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2 hours ago, Kruggly said:

Fins, that flying is poetry in motion. As always, hats off to you! Wish I had more time to play this weekend, but it's nice to see the results posted here. Cheers Skaniol!

 

Now let's just hope the next event is sometime soon...

 

:good:

To be honest, Kruggly, i remained not satisfied by myself. I _know_ i could do no-dive lap at least 1.2 seconds faster with more practice and less need to fly "low risk" style in the battle for rating with Uka; and i _know_ i could do at least THREE seconds better dive lap if i'd have few days to practice dive laps on this track. Possibly some 6...7 seconds faster, even! So, you really give me too much credit. Still, thanks! %)

 

And yeah, let's hope for next event soon. In fact, this very track would be much more interesting in RB. Because _those_ speeds at _that_ altitude in RB? Hard werk! VERY hard werk!! :)

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14 minutes ago, Fins_FinsT said:

Gelesztaa, hi there! Thank you, i know; some few folks call me "racing maniac", yeah... I kinda am. :)

I am much curious, though: that fast lap of yours, was it done with diving? If so, what's your best no-dive time? And if that 4:51 is no-dive lap, then what aircraft and what control method you use? Because 4:51 no-dive is quite very good, man, you know? :)

 

My best was indeed a dive lap. I use the "normal" mouse aim while flying. I was flying the Tempest II. I can't remember exactly, but my "no-dive" lap times were around 4:53-4:54 (I'm bad).

 

The thing is that I managed to get into the same race with you a few times, so I could try to follow you, and see what lines are you flying. But hey, today I saw your video, and I think I could have done a much better lap time by copying your "first sector" :D

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, Gelesztaa said:

 

My best was indeed a dive lap. I use the "normal" mouse aim while flying. I was flying the Tempest II. I can't remember exactly, but my "no-dive" lap times were around 4:53-4:54 (I'm bad).

 

The thing is that I managed to get into the same race with you a few times, so I could try to follow you, and see what lines are you flying. But hey, today I saw your video, and I think I could have done a much better lap time by copying your "first sector" :D

 

So it seemed, indeed; i had a feeling you dove to make it, thank you for the confirmation.

 

Doing good dive lap is an art of itself, and i'm sure you could do much better dive lap if you'd practice a bit more. Control surfaces locking at high speeds, gambling on how high to climb (vs how much time it takes, because if everyone leaves too soon, then one won't be able to complete the dive lap in time), totally different racing lines for most of the lap to allow better saving of that extra "dive" energy, etc. There were times we had some people doing quite good at all that. :)

 

4:53 no-dive is NOT bad for mouse aim, though! It took Uka many dozens races to get his 4:53.3; he's mouse aim too. He made 4:53.3 only last evening of the event, improving bit by bit.

 

About copying: in the video, 1st sector is in fact NOT the fastest possible on this track (beginning of it): in the video, i fly "high route", because it's generally safer at the start. But it's a bit slower than "lower route", which you can see in my dive lap replay.

 

Also, there is not much use to just "copy" racing lines; i've seen pilots as fast as me in general (and definitely faster than me in some corners) who were using extremely very different lines, generally doing opposite to my style of "take longer line if it saves a bit of energy": they, on the opposite, were taking bigger cuts, shortening their trajectory at the cost of slightly higher energy loss. Thing is, mouse aim mode naturally favors this "more cutting" style, while mouse-joystick controls i fly naturally favors the style i use. This is why it might be a bad idea to "copy" my lines everywhere if you fly mouse aim. And also because it'd be practically impossible to copy my lines with mouse-aim while preserving as much energy as it is possible to preserve with mouse-joystick controls (real stick controls are also included here, of course).

 

Perhaps the biggest part of it all, though, is "real" racing experience. Be it real-world car circuit racing, or even high-level virtual car racing, - basically if you're one good racing driver on the ground, here you'll do much good as well. And all good racing drivers have their own style and unique features they can do (which most other good pilots can't). If you want to be good at races, you gotta develop your own.

 

All that said, sure thing, try my lines, see how it goes (if you'll want and if there will be a chance to do so), - just don't expect them to work "magic" for you the same efficiency they work for me. After all, a copy is always a bit worse than the original, too: the mere process of "copying" implies there will be imperfections introduced. So, i'm sorry if i disappoint you a bit with this; but it's as it is, and i prefer to be honest about it.

Edited by Fins_FinsT
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3 minutes ago, Fins_FinsT said:

 

So it seemed, indeed; i had a feeling you dove to make it, thank you for confirmation.

 

Doing good dive lap is an art of itself, and i'm sure you could do much better dive lap if you'd practice a bit more. Control surfaces locking at high speeds, gambling on how high to climb (vs how much time it takes, because if everyone leaves too soon, then one won't be able to complete the dive lap in time), totally different racing lines for most of the lap to allow better saving of that extra "dive" energy, etc. There were times we had some people doing quite good at all that. :)

 

4:53 no-dive is NOT bad for mouse aim, though! It took Uka many dozens races to get his 4:53.3; he's mouse aim too. He made 4:53.3 only last evening of the event, improving bit by bit.

 

About copying: in the video, 1st sector is in fact NOT the fastest possible on this track (beginning of it): in the video, i fly "high route", because it's generally safer at the start. But it's a bit slower than "lower route", which you can see in my dive lap replay.

 

Also, there is no point to "copy" racing lines; i've seen pilots as fast as me who were using extremely very different lines, generally doing opposite to my style of "take longer line if it saves a bit of energy": they, on the opposite, were taking bigger cuts, shortening their trajectory at the cost of slightly higher energy loss. Thing is, mouse aim mode is naturally favors this "more cutting" style, while mouse-joystick controls i fly naturally favors the style i use. This is why it might be a bad idea to "copy" my lines everywhere if you fly mouse aim. And also because it'd be practically impossible to copy my lines with mouse-aim while preserving as much energy as it is possible to preserve with mouse-joystick controls (real stick controls are also included here, of course).

 

Perhaps the biggest part of it all, though, is "real" racing experience. Be it real-world car circuit racing, or even high-level virtual car racing, - basically if you're one good racing driver on the ground, here you'll do much good as well. And all good racing drivers have their own style and unique features they can do (which most other good pilots can't). If you want to be good at races, you gotta develop your own.

 

All that said, sure thing, try my lines see how it goes (if you'll want and if there will be a chance to do so), - just don't expect them to work "magic" for you the same efficiency they work for me. After all, a copy is always a bit worse than the original, too: the mere process of "copying" implies there will be imperfections introduced. So, i'm sorry if i disappoint you a bit with this; but it's as it is, and i prefer to be honest about it.

 

I generally like racing (like watching it in TV and playing a few games rarely), however racing in War Thunder is a completely different story. My main issue with this event was the queue times. I might have been able to do a better lap time but I was just sick of waiting 3-4 minutes to get into a race where I can easily make mistakes.

 

For me it takes a lot of races to learn where to cut the track etc. I could save some time by following you in the races (even after missing a checkpoint lol).

 

But hey, this is the first time I was taking a race event serious. :)

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Gelesztaa said:

 

I generally like racing (like watching it in TV and playing a few games rarely), however racing in War Thunder is a completely different story. My main issue with this event was the queue times. I might have been able to do a better lap time but I was just sick of waiting 3-4 minutes to get into a race where I can easily make mistakes.

 

For me it takes a lot of races to learn where to cut the track etc. I could save some time by following you in the races (even after missing a checkpoint lol).

 

But hey, this is the first time I was taking a race event serious. :)

 

Then, welcome to our (little, but devoted) racing club! :)

Learning never stops, for leading pilots; but yes, it takes some ~15...30 races (varies per pilot) to learn all the "basics" and memorize the course' general shape. It's natural. In this sense, yep, seeing some guys who do good times, following the "big" cuts they do and such - is one very good idea. You don't even need to follow them, just save the replay and then see 'em flying as close and as slow as you like.

 

As for queue times... Believe me, 3...4 minutes is quite literally nothing in compare to what leaders of the event (by rating) have to get through when they build up some solid lead (by rating) over most other pilots. The balancer considers them "too different" from the rest, and keeps 'em leaders waiting for _really_ long times now and then. Last event, both me and Uka once spent some ~70 minutes in queue for a race (and me, i waited some 20...40 minutes for some 10...12 races during the event, too). I told that one community manager in russian forum, he didn't even believe me initially, but i have it recorded exactly for this purpose:

 

 

Ufopter, who was doing good in this event, also confirmed such delays in russian forum after event has ended. So, yep, there is that problem too, and it gets MUCH worse when you're on top. Hopefully developers will eventually fix it. I proposed a way to fix it, too... Remains to be seen if they'll do anything about it.

Edited by Fins_FinsT
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3 minutes ago, Fins_FinsT said:

 

Then, welcome to our (little, but devoted) racing club! :)

Learning never stops, for leading pilots; but yes, it takes some ~15...30 races (varies per pilot) to learn all the "basics" and memorize the course' general shape. It's natural. In this sense, yep, seeing some guys who do good times and following the "big" cuts they do and suh - is a good idea. You don't even need to follow them, just save the replay and then see 'em flying as close and as slow as you like.

 

As for queue times... Believe me, 3...4 minutes is quite literally nothing in compare to what leaders of the event (by rating) have to get through when they build up some solid lead (by rating) over most other pilots. The balancer considers them "too different" from the rest, and keeps 'em leaders waiting for _really_ long times now and then. Last event, both me and Uka once spent some ~70 minutes in queue for a race. I told about it one community manager in russian forum, he didn't even believe me initially, but i have it recorded exactly for this purpose:

 

So, yep, there is that problem too, and it's gets MUCH worse when you're on top. Hopefully developers will eventually fix it. I proposed a way to fix it, too... Remains to be seen if they'll do anything about it.

 

Just wow on that queue time.

Btw I watched the replay for your winning 4:45.1 lap time, and yep, you could've done far better than that.

 

I hope the next event isn't that far.

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Posted (edited)

Well, time-wise, yes i could do; but that diving lap was made relatively early in the event, when i wasn't any well familiar with lines yet (i started to participate in it only Saturday, didn't know about it Friday night). But it was already late enough for me to worry about rating, so i didn't climb that much (and managed to end 3rd doing this dive lap, which prevent any big rating loss). To my surprise, even that "small" climb made me hit map edge area in the process, too. It was the 1st and only dive lap i tried during the event, but i considered it a success for the time being.

 

I had plans to retaliate with even better dive time near the end of the event if anyone would do much better dive lap than yours, but it wasn't needed and i decided not to risk to get huge rating decrease for losing (crashing during "1st sector" of any great dive lap is very probable, flying on the edge of possible is risky).

 

See, if you're serious about racing, it includes lots more than just fast times. Like in real races, sometimes it's better to go slower; sometimes it's even better NOT to fly more races at all, allowing your competition to get tired and/or go away. Sometimes you take damage outta some collision which you can fly with, and the best thing to do may be to fly with that damage a short while, but then jump out of your plane at specific moment and respawn (despite the time loss for doing so). I had one race like that this event: collision right after the start turned my engine yellow and i knew i'd lose more time if i'd try to complete the race on that damaged engine. Still, i didn't jump out right away, i waited for that "hairpin" turn's ring, jumping out right after i reached it, - ended up winning that race, but barely.

 

So yeah, when one races to win, there are choices to be made, and some are "disappointing" in terms of pure speed. Part of the job. :)

Edited by Fins_FinsT
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Posted (edited)

Good news today!

 

1st, Skaniol's screenshot, which i sent to race organizers during private exchange, was published on the website. Only in russian part of the game's website, though. But still, now we have it posted officially - under the second spoiler (second "arrow down" button) on this page. Thank you very much for providing it, Skaniol, once again!

 

And the best part is, there is now reason for me to hope that in future race events, organizers will see to it to publish race event results (leaderboard(s)) officially and with much greater detail and number of people in them. That would be cool! :)

 

2nd, Ufopter has found a way to fly Guiana Highlands mission solo, and told me how to do it. And it allows to select any plane! I instantly went and tried several aircraft in the race, from I-153 Zhukovsky all the way to Canberra and Mig-17, - all those and others do very well on this track. With a few tries, i was able to set 3:39 lap time in Mig-17. Here's proof:

 

 

If anyone's interested how to do it: go "custom battles", start a game, select "by link", paste the link to the mission ( http://live.warthunder.com/dl/2314fd856f0ab97c9d8b4c8b/ ), then hit "refresh" sorta button (looks like circled arrows), which is located right above the map, and then make sure there is "add bots" setting present in the game's parameters and set it to "yes". If the setting is not present, go back a step and hit that "refresh" button again, that somehow "adds" option to have bots into the game's parameters.

 

So now we can race solo if we want, on this track only, but still, that's a step forward! And as it should be, while flying solo, if someone else enters the game - he "replaces" one of bots and can race, too, so it's properly multiplayer as well. Just like the old times! :)

 

P.S. Setting the game to 1 lap and 10 minutes will allow reasonably paced races to happen one after another. But i didn't try yet what happens if to set the race to more than 1 lap. The track is not "closed", but if it somehow works, - endurance racing in RB? Setting it even to some 3 laps will already make fuel amount and engine overheating both very major factors. I gotta try that next time! %)

Edited by Fins_FinsT
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Posted (edited)

No final leaderboard by ratings? Lets put that right

 

Screenshot took at 6 minutes before event ended (leaderboard is 4 mins behind)

Also did a video shot right up to when the times & ratings disappeared at 07:56 and have checked that nothing has changed.

There was a couple of positional changes when ratings disappeared but lower down the leaderboard

 

So just for the record. Top 112 

Spoiler

Guiana_Highlands_Race.png

 

Edited by Adamacus
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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎02 at 2:01 PM, Fins_FinsT said:

Good news today!

 

1st, Skaniol's screenshot, which i sent to race organizers during private exchange, was published on the website. Only in russian part of the game's website, though. But still, now we have it posted officially - under the second spoiler (second "arrow down" button) on this page. Thank you very much for providing it, Skaniol, once again!

Nice, I am glad that my screenshot was helpful! I would have done a ratings screenshot too, but personally I was interested only in the lap times and honestly I thought that we would get some comprehensive official results at the end:dntknw:. Good that other players did take screenshots too, like Adamacus above.

 

 

Quote

If anyone's interested how to do it: go "custom battles", start a game, select "by link", paste the link to the mission ( http://live.warthunder.com/dl/2314fd856f0ab97c9d8b4c8b/ ), then hit "refresh" sorta button (looks like circled arrows), which is located right above the map, and then make sure there is "add bots" setting present in the game's parameters and set it to "yes". If the setting is not present, go back a step and hit that "refresh" button again, that somehow "adds" option to have bots into the game's parameters.

That's great! Is there a way for players who didn't spend 10 bucks to play it solo, though? I tried to put the blk file in the UserMissions folder, but I can't find the mission anywhere ingame.

 

 

BTW, do you think that these single-lap tracks should equalize the best lap time to the race track time so there isn't a possibility for dive-laps, or you find that these dive-laps offer an extra dimension to the racing competition? As an alternative, the maps could simply spawn us at a very high altitude compared to the first checkpoint so we could at least skip the climbing part.

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Adamacus - wow, that's impressively big table! Thank you for posting it.

 

 

Skaniol - i doubt there is a way; if it doesn't work the way Ufopter found because you haven't donated 10+ bucks, then it doesn't work... :( Me, i donated back when i was starting playing WT about that much, since when i consider myself done with "paying developers for this great game". Now that you mentioned it, i remember and i confirm that: indeed, i've seen a mention of such donation done by the player in the past to be a requirement to launch those "by the link" missions.

 

Next, i've been proposing _exactly_ the thing you mentioned, to replace "lap time" in the leaderboard by the "race time", for both single-lap and multi-lap races - many times in the past. It must be done, even though personally i enjoy practicing and then doing dive laps very much, exatcly because it's a _faster_ way to make a lap, and we all love speed.

 

However, it always produces LOTS of misunderstandings, especially to people who are new to racing mode. And there is yet another problem: because of the fact that "lap time" starts to count when one triggers 1st checkpoint, and because the shape of the checkpoint is spherical and rather large, significant amount of time (few hundreds milliseconds) can be "shaved" from one's lap time if one triggers 1st checkpoint by flying very close to its actual "top" point, because in doing so one triggers the 1st checkpoint at the moment when the plane is almost 1/2 of the width of the checkpoint "further" into the track (basic 3D geometry), plus being a bit higher means one has a bit more energy than if flying into very "middle" (actually through the "frontal") part of the 1st checkpoint. Further, there is always uncertainty about when exactly "everyone else" will be gone - and as long as the game forces "last man racing" out of the track, it will always be a gamble of the "stay too long and you won't finish the lap" vs "finishing dive lap too soon means you didn't climb as much as you could, lowering your lap-entry speed" kind. 

 

Bottom line, - it would indeed be best, overall, if "race time" would be the figure in the leaderboard, instead of "lap time". It would simplify and clarify things. Simple and clear - is good!

 

As for spawning at very high altitude - ideal "start the dive from" altitude differs much from plane to plane and from mode to mode (AB, RB). Besides, there was clear "hint" from developers that they do not "like" the idea of dive laps, - sadly, they seem to not see how fun doing diving race laps can be; i mean the fact that they added AAA into "tropical island" race tracks at some point which attack any plane which is 1) anywhere near racing track and 2) climbed above ~500 meters altitude. So, i doubt we'll have "high altitude" spawns on any track.

 

We can always dive for _fun_ and share results in our spare time, provided racing maps work for us solo and/or if we organize some regular racing times coop. :)

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Posted (edited)

On 01/06/2017 at 6:22 PM, Fins_FinsT said:

 

4:53 no-dive is NOT bad for mouse aim, though! It took Uka many dozens races to get his 4:53.3; he's mouse aim too. He made 4:53.3 only last evening of the event, improving bit by bit.

 

 

Cheers all for the screencaps and media, I've been eagerly reading and saving this whole time. I'm predictably glad to see that our little racing community is still going strong :)

 

A message to my fellow mouse aim pilots, if I might. It's possible to go even faster than the time specified in the quote above, on normal mouse aim, with absolutely nothing changed. I actually think this map is one of the most balanced between the different control schemes, oddly, though I'm not sure why that is. Honestly, I can't explain why mouse aim is so fast on this course when it should really lose out because of the way it's more difficult to hold speed and energy. I can tell you for sure though, it won't be by flying the exact same lines as a joystick / mouse joystick pilot. Just as they can do things you can't, you can do things they can't as well - at least, on this track... I think. Still testing a lot of things.

 

I really, really wish I'd had the time to set a better lap during the event, but it is what it is! Hoping for a new event soon!

Edited by Kruggly
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Announcement: several racers are planning to do custom-battles air racing gathering ("WTRC") weekly, every Sunday, 15:00 GMT. Except on weekends we have any official racing event going on in the game. Everyone's welcome, except dedicated rammers, who will be kicked on sight. Further details are now posted in the 1st post of this topic, there will be later additions and possibly changes there.

 

Всем любителям воздушных гонок: несколько пилотов договорились собираться каждое воскресенье в полигоне в 18:00 МСК для совместной игры. Кроме воскресений когда идёт какой-либо гоночный эвент. Будем рады всем, кроме любителей таранить летая вне трассы, - таких будем кикать без предупреждения. Подробнее - см. первый пост этой темы (англ.), он будет дополняться свежей информацией по WTRC и в будущем.

 

 

So, Viva l'Italia racing event has ended. Here are latest possible to capture standings for both modes, and as usual, i attach replays of my best laps in both modes, too. No diving laps done by me during this event, so only one replay per difficulty mode - my best laps which are in the final standings.

 

Только что завершилась гонка "Да здравствует Италия!". Выкладываю видео с последними доступными результатами этого события, в обоих режимах. И как обычно, прикрепляю файлами мои лучшие круги (со временем круга, которое в таблицах) - в этот раз по одному реплею для каждой сложности.

 

 

!5-05-002_AB_2017.07.17 05.57.09.wrpl

!5-44-092_2017.07.16 02.03.30.wrpl

Edited by Fins_FinsT
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It was a really fun event I have to say. Fins, Kruggly, thanks for the free lessons. ;) Hope to see you on the track again. :salute:

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