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Ta 152H-1 and Fw 190D-12 / D-13 with Jumo 213EB engines

Ta 152H-1 and Fw 190D-12 / D-13 with Jumo 213EB engines

 

My suggestion is about adding the Ta 152 H-1, FW 190 D-12  and FW 190D-13 equiped with a more powerful Jumo 213EB engine, adding the engine as an upgrade or upgrading the current aircraft with the Jumo 213EB engine.

 

in my opinion this would give germany a better counter vs. the future 'super-props' and the fixed Griffon Spitfires like the spitfire Mk 22 and Mk 24 as Germany never build any real contenders for true 'super-props' like the F8F-1B, P-51H, Tempest II or Sea Fury and similar.

 

The engine itself was just a Jumo 213E engine using C3 fuel and higher boost ratings. At standard atmosphere pressure that would be 2.02 ata at SL. The mechanical computer operating the engine was just modified a bit and it automatically did the rest as usual.

 

This increased its HP output over the standard Jumo 213E by 200 HP.

 

jumo213_a1.jpg

 

 

dDKF7yO.png?1

The Jumo 213EB engines were planned to be installed in the Ta 152H-1 from 1 July 1945 and the Jumo 213EB was meant to be the production engine of the FW 190 D-13.

The extra power output - 2300 HP instead of 2100 HP - would boost the performance of the Ta 152 H-1 and FW 190 D-12 / D-13 aircraft as seen in the graph below:

 

RAnR7KL.jpg

 

Original document without my writing below:

 

[spoiler]
XAnk6Mi.jpg
[/spoiler]

 

How this would be added is not exactly too important. It could be as separate aircraft variants, it could be as an unlockable modification, or the Flight Models could simply be upgraded. The latter would most certainly be the simplest implementation and adding separate aircraft running with those engines would not be absolutely necessary given the current Ta-152 H-1's and FW 190 D-12 / D-13's place in the German aircraft tree.

 

It's worth noting here that currently these three aircraft represent effective side-grades from one another and the FW 190 D-9, rather than any of them being a definitive upgrade over the other and, if so desired, the upgrade with Jumo 213EB engines would also change that. It wouldn't be necessary to implement in on all three but it would be optimal if it were to happen for the FW 190 D-13 and the Ta-152 H-1 as the Jumo 213EB was afterall the planned production engine for the former and meant to be standard on the latter.

edit 2:

Here some other inportant information about the EB, or the planes who carried it.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/189182-ta-152h-1-and-fw-190d-12-d-13-with-jumo-213eb-engines/?p=4318316

 

edit:

 

a example how the Jumo 213EB-planes could be implemented in the main research tree,

 

1. the Fw 190D12 and D13 with the Jumo213EB would sit in the Fw 190D9 and D12 tab:

vQMqnpU.jpg

 

2. The Ta 152H-1 can just have it as a upgrade, because it will give it the performance needed in the current meta in the battle rating of 6.0:

uXr90RC.jpg

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Of high approval, would pay with money/10!

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in my opinion this would give germany a better counter vs. the future 'super-props' and the fixed Griffon Spitfires like the spitfire Mk 22 and Mk 24 as Germany never build any real contenders for true 'super-props' like the F8F-1B, P-51H, Tempest II or Sea Fury and similar.

The Ta 152H-1 or C-3 are better than these "super-props" at altitude. Not a lot prop planes fly 750km/h at 12km with an armament of 1x MK 103 and 4x MG 151.

 

Germany simply don't have a lot low altitude "super props" like La-9, F8F, Sea Fury or Tempest II. They never needed them and don't build them. But instead they have "super interceptors" with outstanding armament.

So it's simply wrong to say Germany (or japan) don't have super props. Their super props simply have another purpose than the allied ones.

(just saying  :salute: )

 

I really support this. I'll make a few suggestions the next weeks too (more cannons for Fw 190D-9 modifctions for example, the D-9 is one of the best lower altitude fighters and can run with F8Fs at SL at least a little bit)

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The Ta 152H-1 or C-3 are better than these "super-props" at altitude. Not a lot prop planes fly 750km/h at 12km with an armament of 1x MK 103 and 4x MG 151.

 

Germany simply don't have a lot low altitude "super props" like La-9, F8F, Sea Fury or Tempest II. They never needed them and don't build them. But instead they have "super interceptors" with outstanding armament.

So it's simply wrong to say Germany (or japan) don't have super props. Their super props simply have another purpose than the allied ones.

(just saying  :salute: )

 

I really support this. I'll make a few suggestions the next weeks too (more cannons for Fw 190D-9 modifctions for example, the D-9 is one of the best lower altitude fighters and can run with F8Fs at SL at least a little bit)

actually the Fw 190D13 or 12 with a jumo 213EB would be the best german actual ''dogfight'' props. and they are far better then the Ta 152C's in dogfighting because the C is basicly a fast heavy fighter.

 

btw. with GM-1 the Ta 152H-1 with jumo 213EB would have reached a topspeed of over 770km/h at 12.5km..

so yea.. thats we call a superprop

Edited by BananaVG
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Why not?

 

 

They would also make better premiums than the tempest 

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Why not?

 

 

They would also make better premiums than the tempest 

well uh. selling the best props that germany probably will have as premiums is really abit ''pay to win''

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why should German planes be German premiums if they're not experimental...that would be the same bs as the G-2 not being in the regular tree in the standard form but being a premium plane because it has a romanian skin.... it belongs in the regular tree, so do these, to enable Germany to compete with Griffon spits.

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actually the Fw 190D13 or 12 with a jumo 213EB would be the best german actual ''dogfight'' props. and they are far better then the Ta 152C's in dogfighting because the C is basicly a fast heavy fighter.

 

btw. with GM-1 the Ta 152H-1 with jumo 213EB would have reached a topspeed of over 770km/h at 12.5km..

so yea.. thats we call a superprop

source?

 

 

 

and yes but only if they get the appropriate BR of 6.3 ;)

Edited by woodman_victory
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Looking at the numbers on the German tree it probably shouldn't be made a priorty but I don't have an issue with them been added later.
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source?

 

 

 

and yes but only if they get the appropriate BR of 6.7 ;)

just add the GM-1 line on the Ta 152H-1 with the jumo 213EB and you get it.
abit of speculation ofcourse. but why not?

Gm-1 would add some horsepower (or basicly give it back) on that alt.

 

also i think the Ta 152H-1 with the jumo 213EB can be 6.0 or 6.3 and the dora's with that engine should be 6.3-6.7 because that would literailly club any prop we currently have ingame.

 

Looking at the numbers on the German tree it probably shouldn't be made a priorty but I don't have an issue with them been added later.

not ASAP ofcourse, but later or on the same patch as really powerfull props are introduced.

this would compete against them. and is historical in that matter

Edited by BananaVG
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Looking at the numbers on the German tree it probably shouldn't be made a priorty but I don't have an issue with them been added later.

 

 

Well considering the D12 was slated to go to 6.3 BR anyways in the "BR update that ended all BR updates" i highly doubt a plane/planes with this engine wouldn't get moved up in BR.

 

Anyways....

 

Of course i support this!  These planes were built and flew, so there is no reason they shouldn't be modeled in the game at some time, ideally at the same time both U.S. and U.K. get their own super-props, if not at that moment then as soon as possible thereafter.

 

 

About implementation of these planes on the tech tree, personally i see no issue with the D12 and Ta 152 H getting these changes (and a increased BR ofc), my question is if there is any historical evidence that these engines were ever fitted specifically to a FW 190 D13 airframe.  I'm basically asking not because i don't support these changes being added to the D13, but because i am sure somebody else will bring up this point if i don't.

Edited by Ottobon
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Well considering the D12 was slated to go to 6.3 BR anyways in the "BR update that ended all BR updates" i highly doubt a plane/planes with this engine wouldn't get moved up in BR.

 

Anyways....

 

Of course i support this!  These planes were built and flew, so there is no reason they shouldn't be modeled in the game at some time, ideally at the same time both U.S. and U.K. get their own super-props, if not at that moment then as soon as possible thereafter.

 

 

About implementation of these planes on the tech tree, personally i see no issue with the D12 and Ta 152 H getting these changes (and a increased BR ofc), my question is if there is any historical evidence that these engines were ever fitted specifically to a FW 190 D13 airframe.  I'm basically asking not because i don't support these changes being added to the D13, but because i am sure somebody else will bring up this point if i don't.

the engine was build, and i think installed in the still in production Fw 190D13 (the one we have ingame is most likely a pre-production or is using the other engine as stop-gap)

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actually the Fw 190D13 or 12 with a jumo 213EB would be the best german actual ''dogfight'' props. and they are far better then the Ta 152C's in dogfighting because the C is basicly a fast heavy fighter.

 

btw. with GM-1 the Ta 152H-1 with jumo 213EB would have reached a topspeed of over 770km/h at 12.5km..

so yea.. thats we call a superprop

Of course, The Ta 152C-3 is still lighter than a P-47. And have a equal performance at really high altitudes (like Ta 152H-1 too). If you go by weight the P-47s are heavy fighters too.

 

The Ta 152H-1 and Ta 152C-3 can be considered as high altitude super props like the Sea Fury or F8F is a low altitude super prop. 

Ofc the improved engine would make these planes perform better... But even without improved engine they can fight easily any other prop at high altitudes

 

But at topic: The Jumo 213EB was just a Jumo 213E with better fuel, right?

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/159728-fw-190-v32u2/

This Ta 152H-0 variant used a Jumo 213E and was equipped with a high performing 20mm cannon. It will be really good at hunting F-80Cs with it's strong cannon  :crazy:

Edited by GreekFirethrower
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Of course, The Ta 152C-3 is still lighter than a P-47. And have a equal performance at really high altitudes (like Ta 152H-1 too)

 

The Ta 152H-1 and Ta 152C-3 can be considered as high altitude super props like the Sea Fury or F8F is a low altitude super prop. 

Ofc the improved engine would make these planes perform better... But even without improved engine they can fight easily any other prop at high altitudes

thats true, but with the better engine they can also fight enemy's easily at low and medium alt.

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thats true, but with the better engine they can also fight enemy's easily at low and medium alt.

Well, that's good to hear... I just fear La-9, Sea Fury, F8F will perform a little bit better at low altitude though.

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Pretty obvious that I support it, not that they'll ever implement it. :P

well they have to, otherwise high tier prop germany is kinda screwed :p

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Germany simply don't have a lot low altitude "super props" like La-9, F8F, Sea Fury or Tempest II. They never needed them and don't build them. But instead they have "super interceptors" with outstanding armament.

So it's simply wrong to say Germany (or japan) don't have super props. Their super props simply have another purpose than the allied ones.

 

 

Well as a lot of the Eastern Front was low level fighting, I would think they would need them. They would need both high and low altitude planes imo, just like the allies.

Edited by BuccaneerBill

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Well as a lot of the Eastern Front was low level fighting, I would think they would need them. They would need both high and low altitude planes imo.

meh, late war it was really more focussed in destroying bombers.

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