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[Ace tankers] The thread

I'm not huge on Pool:  a good tanker, yes.   But he was far from what you could call an Ace on the same scale as the ones frequently mentioned from both the Germans and the USSR. His numbers was horribly inflated for propaganda reasons in my belief - particularly the 'AFV's and Other Vehicles' bit.

 

As far as a possible German Ace:

 

Kurt Knispel.   Not an Officer, widely regarded as one of the best, and never made it past Feldwebel due to a lack of desire for awards and promotions, general lack of respect to higher, his issues with shaving, and his habit of assualting Einsatzgruppen Officers for mistreating Soviet Prisoners.  He also had the habit of letting others claim kills when there was any question as to who got a tank, letting others take credit in order to get promotions and awards - leaving him with a claimed 168 kills:  and probably much higher.

i'm pretty sure all tank aces had inflated claims for propaganda value.

and soviet and german tankers saw more action for a longer time than Us tankers as well so that would be why they had lower scores

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If german best tank aces are not permitted because they were in SS(which was considered an "elite unit" at the time if not mistaken then you can simply rename topic to russian/allied ace tankers).I never heard that any german tank ace as Whittmann,Carius,Knispel & dozen more did any warcrimes vs civilians or pow's(am not sayin they all didnt but most famous ones i never heard or read anything otherwise they would be prosecuted as rest of war criminals & not admired & respected by their enemy's as much as friendlies like Otto Carius).They were simply the best tank aces at the time & still are recognized,admired & respected as "best of the best" of all time by almost everyone(said by almost every1 since i read few articles where ppl tried to make equal some usa "ace" tanker Pool with Whittmann for destroying 12 tanks & 260 armored vehicles/half tracks vs 138+ tanks & who knows how many armored vehicles,antitank guns,spg's etc which i found hilarious with no disrespect to mentioned above usa tanker ofc but he was just average tank commander compared to Whittmann's stats & ofc his famous "blitz" at Villers-Bocage).

SS or not few of those german tank aces(Whittmann,Carius,Knispel etc)will always have my respect for their dedication,bravery & excellence in combat as leaders & soldiers as "Best tank aces of all time".

:salute:

Edited by InfidelBHF
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Roman Edmund Orlik: Born 26th January 1918 in Rogoźno, died 8th April 1982 in Opole

Podchorąży(NCO equivalent) in the Polish Army, he finished a high school exiting exam in 1937, and finished training in the Armored Weapons Center

He drove a TKS tankette armed with a 20mm cannon during the Invasion of Poland. 

14th September 1939: Supporting the 7th Mounted Infantry Regiment he destroyed 3 Pzkpfw IV or III in a direct attack.

18th September 1939: During an attack on Pociecha he destroyed 3 Pzkpfw 35ts and one Panzer IV, the commander of which being the German aristocrat Victor IV Albrecht von Ratibor.

[spoiler]Plan_potyczki.jpgPlan of the ambush, drawn by Orlik. Burning tank was the Panzer IV.[/spoiler]

19th September 1939 he was covering the attack of the Wielkopolska Cavalry Brigade at Sieraków. In the meantime Germans have started a strong counterattack on their positions being supported by 11 tanks from the 11th Panzer Regiment and 65th Panzer-Abteilung along with artillery. Orliks TKS in a headon attack charged the collumn destroying or damaging 7 tanks. Most of them probably being Panzer 35ts. Along with him, Polish soldiers destroyed over 27 tanks. After that battle he joined the defense of Warsaw. He has been awarded the Cross of Valour for that battle.

 

He's supposedly also joined the Home Army and fought along with them.

 

After the war Orlik finished studies and worked in Łódź as an building architect. He has designed the University of Warsaw library, Study of Foreign Languages and a dormitory for foreginers.

 

He then finished architecture on the Wrocław Polytechnic, and from the beggining of the 70s lived in Opole. He died in 1982 in result of an accident.

Edited by KirrimK
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So some of you will by now have seen the Ace Tanker article. Well good news tank fans! This is going to be a regular feature. So here's a nice little thread where you can talk about suggestions, articles past or other ideas about the series.

 

The biggest one I need is help finding ideas to write about.

 

Now while I can hear you all hammering on the keyboard to enter named suggestions, there's a few issues on what I can or can't write about. So keep these in mind!

 

1. Most importantly: Can I find enough details to make an exciting article? There has to be enough sources available in English for me to use. There's a couple of crew I wanted to write about but I've just not been able to find enough details on them.

 

2. Their vehicle must be in game. That's right we're not allowed to write about tanks that are not yet in game. This causes us an issue at the moment, as there's a rather limited selection. However that selection will expand massively as we go along.

 

3. No buttheads (I would have used a stronger word but its polite company and all). Simply put no one that did anything that is unpleasant. I refuse to write about someone in this feature whom committed a war crime or similar. You might have some debate about that, but if I find a questionable act I'll ask my fellow historical consultants, and we'll come to a decision. But that decision will stand, we'll not debate it. I'm petty sure that Gaijin don't want to feature someone who may have done something unpleasant on their front page. As they're allowing us to do this feature we play by their rules.

 

4. If we decide not to use a Tank crew, please respect that, there may be other driving features behind it. Equally we might include someone whom you wouldn't expect just to keep things lively. But don't expect those units to arrive in game. For example yesterday I suggested to my boss finding a Flak tower commander. He gave me a clip round the ear and told me not to be stupid.

 

 

Past tankers:

 

Nikolai I Baryshev

 

Suggestions:

These are just general memory notes for me, but feel free to add any details.

 

Russian:

Dmitriy Loza

Dmitry Lavrinenko,

 

Polish:

Armia Krajowa (Name to be found)

 

Germans:

Willy Jähde
Johannes Bölter

 

Hungarians:

Kőszeghy Barnabás,
Tarczay Ervin
Roszik János

 

Romanian:

Lt. Ion S. Dumitru

 

Finnish:

Börje Brotel

Well i think Reino Lehväslaiho would  be good choice. For second Finnish ace look him up in internet and you see why.

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After careful consideration of the rules I've come up with a list.

1. There's that guy who was a beast on the battle field, but he is "the one that shall not be named."

2. Then there's that other guy... But no, we can't talk about him...

3. Wait I got it! There's... No. Not him either.

Well there's always Knispel and Carius. Everyone else we could talk about would be an also ran.

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After careful consideration of the rules I've come up with a list.

1. There's that guy who was a beast on the battle field, but he is "the one that shall not be named."

2. Then there's that other guy... But no, we can't talk about him...

3. Wait I got it! There's... No. Not him either.

Well there's always Knispel and Carius. Everyone else we could talk about would be an also ran.

HAHAHAHA! Excellent summary of the rules..... :salute:

 

British (South Africa actually) Major Robert Crisp.

British Colonel Bill Close.

Edited by cat5752
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i think that kurt knispel is a really ace he destroyed 168 confirmed he destroyed more tanks than Michael Wittman

Edited by STRIKERFER
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i think that kurt knisper is a really ace he destroyed 168 confirmed he destroyed more tanks than Michael Wittman

and he wasn't a racist a..... he even confronted officers etc. whom he saw mistreat prisoners

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Better Germany Aces :

- Kurt Knispel

- Otto Carius

- Michael Wittman 

 

In the right order.

 

Otto Carius died not so long ago.

Edited by Fighter117
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In other thread I posted full description so here will be a short one, as for Poland few, although there were more who scored few tank kills as tankers, but none of historians tried to count all Polish kills so far.

 

1)Cadet Platoon-leader Roman Orlik( 71. Dywizjon Pancerny(71st Armored Squadron)) - TKS tankette armed with 20 mm HMG - 13 Tank kills(likely most of them were Pz Kfw 35(t) and Pz IIs), including one Pz Kpfw IV Ausf B. All during only few clashes in september 1939 as he later didn't fight on tanks.

 

2)Podporucznik(2nd lieutenant) Mateusz Lach - T-34-76 m1942/43 from Polish 1st Tank Brigade, during fights from summer of 1944 until march 1945 - 12 German tanks and SPGs.

 

3)Unknown tank commander from Polish 2nd Tank Battalion(7TP tanks) destroyed 5 tanks during clash with the Germans on 5th September 1939.

 

4)Jan Pirog - he was one of the ,,Black Devils'' - he served in Polish 1st Armored Division, during one clash in late 1944 4 tanks destroyed/KO'd and damaged 2 more in his Achilles IIc while inside was only he and his driver(sic!), as he recalled: 

Quote

We started to move forwards and my tank went over a land mine, which damaged a caterpillar and disabled us from moving on. I got in touch with my headquarters and they told me to wait. They sent a transport and I sent three men to get a new tank. About twenty minutes later, a German unit of 9 tanks and infantry tried to cut off our regiment. I had to stop them and somehow I managed to do it. My driver was loading the gun and I destroyed four enemy tanks, damaged two more, and killed a lot of Germans soldiers. We did not take any prisoners. There were only two of us, but they turned back from their objective. We saved our regiment!

Besides this he likely destroyed/KO'd more tanks.

 

There were some tankers who also did impressive stuff like one-shooting Tiger E with Cromwell, but I didn't include them into this list. Other tankers(whom I didn't mention) achived their victories on various tanks and SPGs like T-34-85, Sherman Vc, IS-2, SU-85 etc, also there were two Panthers during Warsaw Uprising used by Poles and both are credited with a few tanks and SPGs KO'd/destroyed plus destroyed armored car(Sd Kfz 263) and some MG positions. This short list above obviously doesn't include German trucks, armored cars, guns, MG positions, planes etc.

 

Also by the way, keep in mind that not all German and Soviet as well allied claims of destroying enemy tank/aircraft can be confirmed by documents of the enemy - German and soviet aces have ,,a few more'' kills than they actually had.

Edited by BartekPL
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