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[Ace tankers] The thread

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So some of you will by now have seen the Ace Tanker article. Well good news tank fans! This is going to be a regular feature. So here's a nice little thread where you can talk about suggestions, articles past or other ideas about the series.

 

The biggest one I need is help finding ideas to write about.

 

Now while I can hear you all hammering on the keyboard to enter named suggestions, there's a few issues on what I can or can't write about. So keep these in mind!

 

1. Most importantly: Can I find enough details to make an exciting article? There has to be enough sources available in English for me to use. There's a couple of crew I wanted to write about but I've just not been able to find enough details on them.

 

2. Their vehicle must be in game. That's right we're not allowed to write about tanks that are not yet in game. This causes us an issue at the moment, as there's a rather limited selection. However that selection will expand massively as we go along.

 

3. No buttheads (I would have used a stronger word but its polite company and all). Simply put no one that did anything that is unpleasant. I refuse to write about someone in this feature whom committed a war crime or similar. You might have some debate about that, but if I find a questionable act I'll ask my fellow historical consultants, and we'll come to a decision. But that decision will stand, we'll not debate it. I'm petty sure that Gaijin don't want to feature someone who may have done something unpleasant on their front page. As they're allowing us to do this feature we play by their rules.

 

4. If we decide not to use a Tank crew, please respect that, there may be other driving features behind it. Equally we might include someone whom you wouldn't expect just to keep things lively. But don't expect those units to arrive in game. For example yesterday I suggested to my boss finding a Flak tower commander. He gave me a clip round the ear and told me not to be stupid.

 

 

Past tankers:

 

Nikolai I Baryshev

 

Suggestions:

These are just general memory notes for me, but feel free to add any details.

 

Russian:

Dmitriy Loza

Dmitry Lavrinenko,

 

Polish:

Armia Krajowa (Name to be found)

 

Germans:

Willy Jähde
Johannes Bölter

 

Hungarians:

Kőszeghy Barnabás,
Tarczay Ervin
Roszik János

 

Romanian:

Lt. Ion S. Dumitru

 

Finnish:

Börje Brotel

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Reading General Maczek's book about the 1st Polish armoured division and what they did, there certainly is a Polish Ace you could feature, cause for "obvious" reasons German Aces are all ruled out (unless I see an article about Wittmann, my point stands) I'm unfamiliar with British or American tank aces, and the few known French tank commanders probably don't qualify as Aces, despite the heroic task they delivered.

Edited by NectariaCoutayar
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[quote name="NectariaCoutayar" post="3140129" timestamp="1407782228"]

Cause for "obvious" reasons German Aces are all ruled out.[/quote]

No they're not.

[quote name="Sodanjumala" post="3140185" timestamp="1407782609"]

Dmitriy Loza - Lend-Lease M4 Sherman tank commander considered by some as the best Soviet tank ace of WW2.[/quote]

And this is why I ask for help... I should have thought of that myself. I've saw his interview back when it was posted on the Netwrok54 Achtung Panzer forums, when the interviewer first carried it out!
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Reading General Maczek's book about the 1st Polish armoured division and what they did, there certainly is a Polish Ace you could feature, cause for "obvious" reasons German Aces are all ruled out. I'm unfamiliar with British or American tank aces, and the few known French tank commanders probably don't qualify as Aces, despite the heroic task they delivered.

 

General Maczek indeed is a good tank commander for his actions during September 1939 and 1944-1945, but we don't have such tanks yet...

 

From the Polish point of view I can look for:

A view German tanks captured on West. Basically a Panzer II, but used to training so this option is out.

 

Polish Panthers used by Home Army in Warsaw Uprising, There is quite a lot about them, but need check if can be somebody for Ace. Only problem may be that Stalin refused to help Poles and left them to die from Germans hand from political reasons. Off course we can avoid all that stuff and make article about warfare only, but is good to inform you that something touchy is somewhere around.

Magda-Pudel.jpg

 

The last case in Polish Army on the East. Finding somebody there is possible, however problems are with literature, and some of those "Poles" were Soviets, at least in beginning period.

 

Short qestion

He have a capture German Sherman, is that mean that we can make artivles about Sherman tankers from Western Alies? If yes, those have to use just Sherman, or this concrete variant?

Edited by Botan
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And this is why I ask for help... I should have thought of that myself. I've saw his interview back when it was posted on the Netwrok54 Achtung Panzer forums, when the interviewer first carried it out!

 

And his tank is technically really in the game so that shouldn't be issue then.

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Short qestion

He have a capture German Sherman, is that mean that we can make artivles about Sherman tankers from Western Alies? If yes, those have to use just Sherman, or this concrete variant?

 

The Armia Krajowa idea is a good one, but as you note: Politics!

 

I've been told as long as the tank is in game you can look at crew for it. The Sherman was going to be the key for several other nations. I had thought of that, but I don't want to over do it and leave me with no one when those nations are introduced. So the odd one here or there isn't a bad idea.

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George Diers, Otto Carius, Michael Wittman, Karl Korner, Kurt Knispel, Lafayette G. Pool

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George Diers, Otto Carius, Michael Wittman, Karl Korner, Kurt Knispel, Lafayette G. Pool

 

Wittman, Diers and Korner is a no no, due to them being SS.

Pool is US, and we don't have his Sherman.

Something else might be happening with Carius and Knispel.

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Mariya Oktyabrskaya and Aleksandra Samusenko

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Mariya Oktyabrskaya

 

She's already on the possibles list, and is looking like a strong contender for October's article.

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She's already on the possibles list, and is looking like a strong contender for October's article.

I look forward to it :salute:

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Kőszeghy Barnabás, Tarczay Ervin and Roszik János. The three Hungarian tank aces I know of, I will post further informations in the future.

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Wittman, Diers and Korner is a no no, due to them being SS.

Well german tanks are related to SS, gonna remove them from game ?

 

How about Rommel ? He was acknowledged by Churchill himself

 

This is what Churchill said:

He also deserves our respect because, although a loyal German soldier, he came to hate Hitler and all his works, and took part in the conspiracy to rescue Germany by displacing the maniac and tyrant

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Wittman, Diers and Korner is a no no, due to them being SS.

*facepalm* Nobody would call you a n-word for featuring a tank commander that has many tanks destroyed. It's not like they are all war criminals or they did some really bad things if they are in the SS.

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*facepalm* Nobody would call you a n-word for featuring a tank commander that has many tanks destroyed. It's not like they are all war criminals or they did some really bad things if they are in the SS.

 

There's the political aspect you're missing. Both Germany and Russia (where Gaijin is based) have laws that relate to certain German organisations. Me personally? I don't give a hoot. But when there's a chance someone could start lobbing lawyers at the people who I'm helping out, then one gets a bit more selective about what one writes about.

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Kőszeghy Barnabás, Tarczay Ervin and Roszik János. The three Hungarian tank aces I know of, I will post further informations in the future.

 

I'd heard of Tarczay but not the others. I'll have to have a dig around but thanks.

 

Dmitry Lavrinenko,Ersnt Barkmann,Willy Jähde,Radley Walters,Johannes Bölter,just to mention some,i wrote an artice about them in the spanish subforum  http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/147518-los-ases-tanquistas/

 

Barkmann is SS, Walters is Canadian (so can come later with British or US tank release).

 

Lavrinenko is one to consider, as are Bölter and Jähde

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Here's the link to the list of Panzer aces from Germany off wiki. Take notes that most of them are SS (which is no no), while couple of them aren't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56865 (2nd post list the panzer aces))

 

 

And the link to the list of Soviet tank aces.

http://www.wio.ru/tank/ww2aces.htm (this one list tank aces, the tanks they used, and the units they were in)

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=67191 (1st post, containing little more info on Soviet tank aces' kills)

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Here's the link to the list of Panzer aces from Germany off wiki. Take notes that most of them are SS (which is no no), while couple of them aren't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_Panzer_aces_from_Germany

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56865 (2nd post list the panzer aces))

 

 

And the link to the list of Soviet tank aces.

http://www.wio.ru/tank/ww2aces.htm (this one list tank aces, the tanks they used, and the units they were in)

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=67191 (1st post, containing little more info on Soviet tank aces' kills)

 

Thanks very much.

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I'd heard of Tarczay but not the others. I'll have to have a dig around but thanks.

Roszik János fought at the river Don, and died in September, 1942. He was our very first tank commander, who is considered as an ace. I will post more information.

 

You might want to search "Battery of the Dead" if you want to find Kőszeghy. He was a Battery commander of a StuG III ausf. G Battalion (I believe, that it will be in game in the next Update). I can find more information about him on Hungarian sites, and I already did, I'm just translating it for you.

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I recommend reading the books Panzer Aces I,II and III by Franz Kurowski,there are plenty of non SS german tank aces and notable commanders and their combat records listed ,like Ludwig Neigl that knocked out 12 T-34´s in one day with the Nashorn tank destroyer,too bad the Nashorn is not ingame.

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How about Franz Bäke? Very interesting and large action history. Not true tank ace really but he was known for his tactical and commander skills.

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Since we aren't strictly dealing with "tank aces" in any particular sense, where do we draw the line? Traditionally tank aces are either the commander or the gunner, since they get the glory from destroying enemy vehicles. Should destroying enemy tanks in tank vs tank combat be a requirement?

 

For example what about other tank crew members who may have performed extraordinary feats of courage beyond the call of duty, despite perhaps not getting to fire the main gun at an enemy tank even one single time? Something like performing field repairs under heavy enemy fire, pulling out unconscious crew from a burning tank, or charging into a successful counter-attack after your vehicle is disabled...

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