Borisych

Devs about 15 sec. bail-out time

The 15 sec. issue storms the Forum, so let us discuss it in this only topic. All futher topics will be deleted, or we completely stuck in this mess. 15 secs are now only for the Arcade, so let the topic be pinned here for some time.

 

So, quite a lot of players seem not to understand the principles forced ejection time is implemented. In this thread WT devs will try to clear the things out.

 

Please read this carefully, it really might help ;)

 

 

1. Ejection time appear only after the "death" of an aircraft, i.e. totally  critical damage which unabled you to control your plane/guns/bombs in versions before 1.27. This means you can't even glide, becuse internal damage will led to crush anyway. Note, that gliding with your engine off or damage is still here, nothing has been changed. If you see 15 sec timer this means your airplane in already 'dead', no matter how it may look like.

 

2. New physics of 1.27 update allows some aircraft flying virtually infinitely after death. And some players will fly till the end, hoping to frag somebody. This is bad for the game experience, this is bad for team. We forced it to end in several seconds. What can be done in these seconds? A lot, see below.

 

3. Damage or frag somebody, drop bombs on enemy positions, steer your plane over enemy AAA - you may do a lot when your aircraft is crashing

 

4. Crash landings. You cant perform belly landing when no wing and tail and you falling from 3000m. But you may save your plane when take damage landing your airfield. Say, you break your wing away when landing on your airfield - manage to stop, the timer will be off and you'll be repaired. We've noticed a bug when 15 sec timer sometimes don't stops when repair is in progress. This will be fixed ASAP.

 

5. 15 sec timer appears only when your pilot still alive. If sharp burst of the enemy instantly kills your pilot - you can't do anything and loose control over the plane like it was when 'dead' in 1.25 and earlier.

 

6. General gameplay hasn't changed excepting now you have some 'after-death' abilities. Don't want to wait 15 secs - press J and you'll be selecting next plane in just 3 seconds, no problem. But you always have a 15 secs to gain some money, exp and help your team.

 

7. All systems of an aircraft, which were not critically damaged when the aircraft 'dead', remains in action. These may be machine guns, cannons, turrets, bomb dropping mechanisms, elements of direction or height control. So you can fire guns, drop bombs and steer on enemy head if these systems are OK.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Basically it's like that:

 

1.25: You're dead, now pick another plane.

1.27: You're dead, but you have been given 15 seconds to see if you can't drag someone screaming to hell with you.  Also crashing into ground targets.

(thnx Apocalypse_Later)

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I like the change to the physics system.

 

The 15 seconds seem reasonable for arcade, since before, you would be dead, now you have a bit more time to try and do what you had to do.

 

Today I managed to direct my bomber(which had it's right wing cut off) into their last ship, kill it, thus winning the game for my team. It felt amazing.

 

Also, after the today's patches I noticed there is no more timer in training sessions. That is great.

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There is no such a thing as "death" of an aircraft in the air. PK exists but "death" of an aircraft does not. Exit timer is logical and reasonable only if pilot is killed (PK) but aircraft is alive till it hits the ground.

 

This is why your clients are unhappy when they are alive but are forced to eject. They want to make decision to bail out or crash with their aircraft if they can not control it. And they want to fight in it if they can control it. Quite reasonable and simple IMO.

 

Developers may have different logic because they invented and programmed a "death" of aircraft for their own convenience, but this does not mean it is convenient for players as they are not get used to it in real life.

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This principle is yet very dumb, if the plane is "dead" how would you say someone can glide infinity? plane is never dead, until pilot id dead or it hits the ground, if you cannot control the plane it will eventually crash, so a forced bail out is pure stupidity, you dead when your plane hit the ground and crash, if it survives somehow when the plane pronounced as dead ( missing part, wing,whatever), then make a timer for bail out so the player won't stuck on the ground. and 3 second to bail out is not needed too, when you want to bail out you press a button and you bail out.

 

Also remove the respawn after planes are fixed/repaired in arcade, it's very unreal and not fun to see.

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There is no such a thing as "death" of an aircraft in the air. PK exists but "death" of an aircraft does not. Exit timer is logical and reasonable only if pilot is killed (PK) but aircraft is alive till it hits the ground.

 

This is why your clients are unhappy when they are alive but are forced to eject. They want to make decision to bail out or crash with their aircraft if they can not control it. And they want to fight in it if they can control it. Quite reasonable and simple IMO.

 

Developers may have different logic because they invented and programmed a "death" of aircraft for their own convenience, but this does not mean it is convenient for

players as they are not get used to it in real life.

 

Imo the dev's reasoning is fine, the player's is not.

 

There can be situations when a plane will be considered killed (let's say for ex. a part of the wing is chopped off), but the player can still fly it, because of the way the flight model works in arcade (planes are easier to control, and he can keep on going). That can be frustrating to the enemy team, so the devs decided to put the timer in.

 

It does not exist in harder difficulty modes like HB or FRB, because it is not necessary.

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There is no such a thing as "death" of an aircraft in the air. PK exists but "death" of an aircraft does not. Exit timer is logical and reasonable only if pilot is killed (PK) but aircraft is alive till it hits the ground.

 

This is why your clients are unhappy when they are alive but are forced to eject. They want to make decision to bail out or crash with their aircraft if they can not control it. And they want to fight in it if they can control it. Quite reasonable and simple IMO.

 

Developers may have different logic because they invented and programmed a "death" of aircraft for their own convenience, but this does not mean it is convenient for players as they are not get used to it in real life.

This is why "some" of your clients are unhappy. I understand what the devs have done, Previous to patch 1.27, you were sent back to the aircraft selection screen, now instead of being sent back you can sit in your dead aircraft for a further 15 seconds, it is not a message to tell you to land, you should have made that decision earlier, from the point you receive the bailout option, your aircraft is fairly irrevocably past redemption "unless" you happen to be landing anyway or near to landing, you dont want to sit their dropping a desperate bombload, or allowing your gunners to grab what damage they can, you can go right ahead and bailout, granted you may have an aditional 3 seconds yo wait, is that to much? What is the real issue of this feature? I fail to understand what is causing such a big problem.

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There is no such a thing as "death" of an aircraft in the air.

 

And such things as "arcade" and "mouse aim" are surely are in the air.

 

They want to make decision to bail out or crash with their aircraft if they can not control it. And they want to fight in it if they can control it.

 

"And some players will fly till the end, hoping to frag somebody. This is bad for the game experience, this is bad for team."

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And such things as "arcade" and "mouse aim" are surely are in the air.

 

 

"And some players will fly till the end, hoping to frag somebody. This is bad for the game experience, this is bad for team."

 

Somehow, I think most players misunderstood this feature.

 

They believed this feature was placed to restrict them for flying damaged planes in situations where it would normally fly, instead of it's real purpose to fly their planes a bit more, instead of being sent to the selection screen.

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Forced eject is worst idea i ever imagined.

when i saw this game first time i felt in love. when i was playing it it was awesome.

when i saw trailer with new patch that i could manage to land a plane without wing or tail i thought it will be best game ever created,

and then the 30 sec and now 15 sec restriction... it's like shoot in your own head.

We are the pilots of the plane, so if pilot is not dead (we) why we can't try to controll it till the dead or bail out ?

So when i got damaged turret i WoT and i can't move it i should be forced bo leave the tank or just play it without moving turret ?

(world of tanks as example)

Restriction lead to nothing. Give players free will... and listen to the community stubborn developers. You wont play this game, WE WILL

AND WE WILL DECIDE TO BUY OR DON'T BUY PREMIUM so it will be Your own fault when majority of players who dont like Your ideas won't play.

 

ps. maybe forced bail out is for increase repair cost and u know what i mean... GOLDEN EAGLEZZZ ~!

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ps. maybe 15 sec forced bail out is for increase repair cost and u know what i mean... GOLDEN EAGLEZZZ ~!

 obvious paranoia, sheesh.

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Forced eject is worst idea i ever imagined.

when i saw this game first time i felt in love. when i was playing it it was awesome.

when i saw trailer with new patch that i could manage to land a plane without wing or tail i thought it will be best game ever created,

and then the 30 sec and now 15 sec restriction... it's like shoot in your own head.

Restriction lead to nothing. Give players free will... and listen to the community stubborn developers. You wont play this game, WE WILL

AND WE WILL DECIDE TO BUY OR DON'T BUY PREMIUM so it will be Your own fault when majority of players who dont like Your ideas won't play.

 

ps. maybe 15 sec forced bail out is for increase repair cost and u know what i mean... GOLDEN EAGLEZZZ ~!

 

There is no timer in HB and FRB. You can try to land your critically damaged plane there. In arcade mode, where physics are unrealistic, it would not be as cool for the enemy team as it is for you.

 

Sadly, I think most players that managed to see the light after games like WOT, are now paranoid.

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There is no such a thing as "death" of an aircraft in the air. PK exists but "death" of an aircraft does not. Exit timer is logical and reasonable only if pilot is killed (PK) but aircraft is alive till it hits the ground.

 

This is why your clients are unhappy when they are alive but are forced to eject. They want to make decision to bail out or crash with their aircraft if they can not control it. And they want to fight in it if they can control it. Quite reasonable and simple IMO.

 

Developers may have different logic because they invented and programmed a "death" of aircraft for their own convenience, but this does not mean it is convenient for players as they are not get used to it in real life.

 

Sigh,

 

For the last time this isn't real life, if you want real life join the Air Force.  I agree the forced ejection needs to be optimized badly...  however it's a good idea just not implemented in the right way.

 

If your wing is cut off it should be considered instant death and thus "Auto-eject" because nothing you do will save the plane or the pilot if he/she doesn't bail out.

 

If your pilot dies new plane selection automatically.

 

If your plane has taken severe damage but is glideable or landable (NO FORCED EJECTION!)  allow the players to choose if they want to try to land to (SAVE REPAIR COSTS) or choose to eject and (PAY REPAIR COSTS).  This can be implemented easily based on a 1 and 0 value:  (If speed = 0 = reduced repair costs if speed >0 = normal/maximum repair cost) (Note: Gravitational force value needs to determine rather speed 0 = reduced repair cost or normal repair costs.)  The advantage to this in particular makes repair costs on planes more linear, and gives the player the ability to reduce those costs through some skilled flying.  This would also stop the constant changes to repair costs as there would be an easier repair cost cap determined by the Tier of the aircraft.  Example: Jets 20/30k repair [w/e gaijin decides is reasonable but not rediculously overpriced like it is now 60k repairs] (BUT if the jet is glideable or landable then the player can reduce the cost of repair by landing the aircraft or belly landings)

 

Some thoughts and suggestions.

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So far in my experience the system is working as intended and isn't usually detracting from my game-play.

 

Item 4 - Devs have highlighted as a bug...this has happened to me and good to see it picked up already and was my only major gripe.

 

New Physics and crash landing...perhaps aircraft models are a bit robust still for this? I belly landed my Avenger on the beach in Pearl Harbour map..really REALLY think it should have been a full on crash. Even though I was attempting a crash landing, knew I was going down, in the end I got another lump of lead from the enemy and really hit in hard and too fast. 

 

I got the "landing" still but is the Avenger model meant to be that tough?

 

EDIT - that said....the damage models seem weak whilst in the air...why are aircraft wings falling off when they get sneezed at? My P-39 was shot down by a Kittyhawk (so not cannon armed) in one burst, from behind, from full health by having both wings shot off in one go!

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So, quite many players seems not to understand the principles forced ejection time is implemented. In this thread WT devs will try to clear the things out.

I understand, but can't agree with

implement forced bailout timer just because it's the arcade mode? no, I simply cannot agree with this

 

the plane is "dead" if and only if you crash into the ground or get blown by someone's weapons

 

I was in the situation where only my engine was hit, no other critical damage at all, and the timer started - having no engine counts as a "dead" plane, again .. I can't agree with it

 

as it was said, planes cannot glide on their own indefinetly

 

when the minimum IAS threshold is met, lift will no longer be generated by the wing(s) and the plane will stall and crash to the ground

 

if you really want players not to fly a critically damaged plane, you should simply grant them the 3seconds automatic bail out - not 15, 3 (!!)

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1. Ejection time appear only after the "death" of an aircraft, i.e. totally  critical damage which unabled you to control your plane/guns/bombs in versions before 1.27. This means you can't even glide, becuse internal damage will led to crush anyway. Note, that gliding with your engine off or damage is still here, nothing has been changed. If you see 15 sec timer this means your airplane in already 'dead', no matter how it may look like

So why force me to bail out? I'm dead anyway, right?

 

 

2. New physics of 1.27 update allows some aircraft flying virtually infinitely after death. And some players will fly till the end, hoping to frag somebody. This is bad for the game experience, this is bad for team. We forced it to end in several seconds. What can be done in these seconds? A lot, see below

Planes don't fly indefinitely. At some point they drop out of the sky. Yes, some players will try to frag someone/something, maybe even steer the dead plane in order to crash into someone/something. So what? How is this different from real life which you try to imitate? Why is that bad. SO many times I've been shot down and did any effort to crash my plane into a tank/AA/vehicle. What's wrong about that? I got another kill for my team and more XP for me. How is that harming the game?

 

 

3. Damage or frag somebody, drop bobms on enemy positions, steer your plane over enemy AAA - you may do a lot when your aircraft is crushing

If I can still do that - why force me to only have 15 seconds to do it?

 

 

5. 15 sec timer appears only when your pilot still alive. If sharp burst of the enemy instantly kills your pilot - you can't do anything and loose control over the plane like it was when 'dead' in 1.25 and earlier.

My pilot is dead. I lost control over my plane. Make sense.

But my gunners are not. If on the way down my gunners can still hit a plane or even take him down - why only limit me to 15 seconds? Without a pilot it's not that I can do anything other than dive, right? So please allow me the courtesy of crashing on my own. Don't force me to bail out if I don't want to. There is no added value for the 15 seconds forced bail out in these cases. No game will change if you allow a plane to dive to its death when the pilot is killed.

 

 

6. General gameplay hasn't changed excepting now you have some 'after-death' abilities. Don't want to wait 15 secs - press J and you'll be selecting next plane in just 3 seconds, no problem. But you always have a 15 secs to gain some money, exp and help your team.

Why ONLY 15 seconds? Again, what is the harm of a live gunner keep on shooting? What game changer is it if a "dead" plane can still do something until it crashes to the ground or until it's completely blown off the sky?

 

 

7. All systems of an aircraft, which were not critically damaged when the aircraft 'dead', remains in action. These may be machine guns, cannons, turrels, bomb dropping mechanisms, elements of direction or height control. So you can fire guns, drop bombs and steer on enemy head if these systems are OK.

Yes, but only for 15 seconds, right?

Say it with me fellows: what good is it to limit me to 15 seconds? Why is this bothering the game balance? If the enemy thinks a critically injured plane is such a threat - let them blow me to pieces. Surely a critically hurt plane is not hard to shoot down, is it?

 

 

Sorry Borisych, I'm not convinced that this 15 seconds forced bail out is anything but annoying.

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I understand, but can't agree with

implement forced bailout timer just because it's the arcade mode? no, I simply cannot agree with this

 

the plane is "dead" if and only if you crash into the ground or get blown by someone's weapons

 

I was in the situation where only my engine was hit, no other critical damage at all, and the timer started - having no engine counts as a "dead" plane, again .. I can't agree with it

 

 

if you really want players not to fly a critically damaged plane, you should simply grant them the 3seconds automatic bail out - not 15, 3 (!!)

 

so your engine didnt explode and kill the airframe?, it didnt start a fire? the oil leakage produced so much vision impairement that the pilot couldnt see? Did you hop in the cockpit and have a look? so many variables for an engine death, many of our users are obsessed with this. ok once more, An aircraft can still be landed with a dead/dieing engine(no bailout option), sometimes the damage is so severe that the aircraft is deemed as unrecoverable therefore at that point your bail out options appear.

 

Devs, I fully support this addition to gameplay, and do not envy you the task of convincing people it is good.

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Somehow, I think most players misunderstood this feature.

 

They believed this feature was placed to restrict them for flying damaged planes in situations where it would normally fly, instead of it's real purpose to fly their planes a bit more, instead of being sent to the selection screen.

 

That's right.

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Somehow, I think most players misunderstood this feature.

 

They believed this feature was placed to restrict them for flying damaged planes in situations where it would normally fly, instead of it's real purpose to fly their planes a bit more, instead of being sent to the selection screen.

I don't need a forced bail out for that. I can just hit Esc at any point and get the option to go back to the plane selection screen. Dead plane or not.

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so your engine didnt explode and kill the airframe?, it didnt start a fire? the oil leakage produced so much vision impairement that the pilot couldnt see? Did you hop in the cockpit and have a look? so many variables for an engine death, many of our users are obsessed with this. ok once more, An aircraft can still be landed with a dead/dieing engine(no bailout option), sometimes the damage is so severe that the aircraft is deemed as unrecoverable therefore at that point your bail out options appear.

 

Devs, I fully support this addition to gameplay, and do not envy you the task of convincing people it is good.

are you serious?

no the engine was not on fire and did not kill the airframe

 

and yet to the absolute amazement to your reasoning, you can glide a plane back and land when you do not receive critical in the engine

that engine will overheat in time and die, you can still glide it and if extremely lucky, you can even land it

I did it, and a lot of other here did it also

 

hell I even landed a plane with back damage to the wings, so what's the deal?! devs arbitrarily decide when I can or cannot fly a damaged plane?

 

ps: your reasoning is deeply flawed since this bailout timer does not exist in HB and FRB

 

 

ps2: do we even get a reduced damage to the plane in repair costs for a sucressful bail? if not, why the feature at all

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Reposting this since obviously people haven't read it yet.

 

If your wing is cut off it should be considered instant death and thus "Auto-eject" because nothing you do will save the plane or the pilot if he/she doesn't bail out.

 

If your pilot dies new plane selection automatically.

 

If your plane has taken severe damage but is glideable or landable (NO FORCED EJECTION!)  allow the players to choose if they want to try to land to (SAVE REPAIR COSTS) or choose to eject and (PAY REPAIR COSTS).  This can be implemented easily based on a 1 and 0 value:  (If speed = 0 = reduced repair costs if speed >0 = normal/maximum repair cost) (Note: Gravitational force value needs to determine rather speed 0 = reduced repair cost or normal repair costs.)  The advantage to this in particular makes repair costs on planes more linear, and gives the player the ability to reduce those costs through some skilled flying.  This would also stop the constant changes to repair costs as there would be an easier repair cost cap determined by the Tier of the aircraft.  Example: Jets 20/30k repair [w/e gaijin decides is reasonable but not rediculously overpriced like it is now 60k repairs] (BUT if the jet is glideable or landable then the player can reduce the cost of repair by landing the aircraft or belly landings)

 

Some thoughts and suggestions.

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So why force me to bail out? I'm dead anyway, right?

 

To give you chance to damage or frag more, gain more xp and money. You guys will be sceptical, but the feature is introduced generally for your profit and fun.

 

 

Planes don't fly indefinitely. At some point they drop out of the sky. Yes, some players will try to frag someone/something, maybe even steer the dead plane in order to crash into someone/something. So what?

 

The arcade mode will be the game of dead planes flying hopelessly in different directions. And their teammate will fight desperately one or two versus enemy team.

 

 

If I can still do that - why force me to only have 15 seconds to do it?

 

No you can't. You can't when 'dead'. In versions before 1.27 you simply loose your contol, now you have 15 sec to steer your aircraft to enemy - even after death.

 

Sorry Borisych, I'm not convinced that this 15 seconds forced bail out is anything but annoying.

 

I'm not convincing anybody, mate, I'm trying to explain the feature.

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are you serious?

no the engine was not on fire and did not kill the airframe

how do you know that? do you have some add on that shows precise damage to the aircraft components? The model is not perfect but its getting there with respect to the demonstration with your plane model of what is going on under the hood.

and yet to the absolute amazement to your reasoning, you can glide a plane back and land when you do not receive critical in the engine

that engine will overheat in time and die, you can still glide it and if extremely lucky, you can even land it

I did it, and a lot of other here did it also

What, a black engine with no prop spinning is a fair indication of a dead engine with critical damage, on some occasions flyable which I have done post patch, on other occasions I havent. What are you saying?

hell I even landed a plane with back damage to the wings, so what's the deal?! devs arbitrarily decide when I can or cannot fly a damaged plane?

Devs decide when your plane is hit, scores a hit anyway, so why not, you want to decide when you die maybe?

 

ps: your reasoning is deeply flawed since this bailout timer does not exist in HB and FRB

in your opinion my reasoning is flawed, in my opinion it is not, hey thats life. What has Historical Battles and Full real got to do with it? thats a whole different ball game and it was always in the developers plan to introduce a more complex dynamic to Arcade, they said it up front, obviously too complex for some of our members.

 

You still havent indicated why the bailout is a problem.

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"And some players will fly till the end, hoping to frag somebody. This is bad for the game experience, this is bad for team."

 

If current physics can not naturally bring a plane to the ground in arcade, it is possible to artificially slowly add aerodynamic drag to a so called "dead aircraft" to make it fall down in some time. My point is paying customers do not like when they are forced to do something they do not want like leave a partially controlled plane. More happy customers = more money for the devs.

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