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Tank Shells and Choosing Your Loadout


LB should i be using the APHE or APHEBC i know the cap gives better ballistics and better pen but is it giving that in sacrifice for explosive power when it pens?

 

I'm assuming you're looking at the 85mm shell? Because I had the same dilemma with them. The APHE and APHEBC on the russian 85mm seem bugged, and the BC shell is only better in certain scenarios.

 

Honestly though, the BC shells are probably the best option. Better to pen and do a little damage than not pen and make a nice flash on their side.

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no i was referring to the 122mm on the IS4M its about 7mm more pen at its closest which is why i ask. in all honesty i think the russian 100 is the best shell in game. at least against JT. i see T54s shrek em all day errday.

Edited by ___Kirito___
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On the D-25 gun, the APHEBC shell is far better than the APHE. Switching from my fully upgraded IS-2 to the IS-3 was a hard transition, the shells just didn't seem to do any damage.

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Thanks, but am I just having a terrible time or are APCR's and HEAT doing nothing for me? I normally have to use like 7 shells to kill one thing, or in the case of Russians, use Shrapnel shells to the rear of the turret.

 

Am I using APCR and HEAT incorrectly or is it hit detection/damage models that's screwing my StuG over?

 

Unfortunately the Stugg 3A does not get APHE shells like every soviet tank does.  Actually most tier 1 germans don't.  The APHE shells explode inside the tank and do WAAAYYYYYY more damage in game.  With AP shells and HEAT, they generally damage whatever module  is infront of them and create some shrapnel that does minor damage to some other modules.  With HEAT you have to keep selecting a different part of your target to hit.  If you keep shooting the same place you wont do much more damage.  Basically I found with the stugg: Shoot the turret right side of gun, then shoot left side of gun, then dead centre hull for the driver.  After than see what crew members are still alive and shoot for them .

 

Turret:

Commander

gunner

loader

 

Hull:

machine gunner

driver

 

 

APHE shells have the benefit of not really needing to change locations that you are shooting at.  In the T-34 I generally put the round just under the turret ring, and this explodes in the space where the turret is joined with the hull, usually injuring the driver and machine gunner, and killing all the crew in the turret.  A second round same place will finish off the other two crew.  Also their explosion is dead centre of the tank so generally has a chance to damage all modules so I often detonate ammo or set the tank on fire, damage the gun breach, etc.

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APCR has none or lacks HE filler, HEAT is for extreme long range (Kursk), use PzGr 39 (APHE) it kills fast.

 

Most tier 1 german tanks, including the Stugg 3A, do not get pzgr 39, the get K Gr rot PZ 39 which is just a solid AP shell.

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source me something please, I'd like to read about it

 

IIRC they use a shaped HE filler that compresses a projectile into a certain direction, and under the shear amount of pressure it begins to act in a plastic way and it projects forward in a "jet" of metal

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HEAT rounds don't penetrate their target due to "melting" the armour, nor is the liner going to reach melting temperature.

 

The liner gets accelerated to around 10 km/s, impacting on the armour plate with an extreme pressure of several hundred gigapascals. Under these conditions even materials like bare metal act accordingly to the rules of fluid dynamics. And even though this simply is an act of cold deformation, HEAT rounds indeed often induce fires. Due to the liquification under pressure, the metal turns into a pyrophoric substance which ignites spontaneously in air.

Edited by Reuter
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HEAT rounds don't penetrate their target due to "melting" the armour, nor is the liner going to reach melting temperature.

 

The liner gets accelerated to around 10 km/s, impacting on the armour plate with an extreme pressure of several hundred gigapascals. Under these conditions even materials like bare metal act accordingly to the rules of fluid dynamics. And even though this simply is an act of cold deformation, HEAT rounds indeed often induce fires. Due to the liquification under pressure, the metal turns into a pyrophoric substance which ignites spontaneously in air.

 

Yea, as I thought. I'm aware mostly of the workings, but I guess implied it wrong, I'll add to the OP, thanks

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hi,

It is the second time I write here, I'm a new player, and playing tank mod see that I could destroy more enemies if he had a squadron supporting my tank, or even a gold player was there as infantry attacking or protecting my flank.
No, no infantry in the game Tankmen will only target aircraft sovre the surface where the fight actually occurs.

Thank you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It may have been covered and  I missed it so has anyone mentioned the caped rounds designed to help grip surface to aide in sloped armor pen? Read this old book titled Tank vs Tank by former Brit WWII tanker.

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It may have been covered and  I missed it so has anyone mentioned the caped rounds designed to help grip surface to aide in sloped armor pen? Read this old book titled Tank vs Tank by former Brit WWII tanker.

"Due to the increase in armor thickness during the conflict, the projectiles’ size and impact velocity had to be increased to ensure perforation. At these higher velocities, the hardened tip of the shot or shell has to be protected from the initial impact shock, or risk shattering. To raise the impact velocity and stop the shattering, they were initially fitted with soft steel penetrating caps. The best performance penetrating caps were not very aerodynamic, so an additional ballistic cap was later fitted to reduce drag. The resulting projectile types were named armor-piercing capped (APC) and armor-piercing capped ballistic capped (APCBC)."

APC - Capped Ap - was introduced to prevent shattering of shells esp. against face hardened armour.

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HI guys im new to WT: Ground Forces, i am using the German TD (Tank Destroyer) which is my favorite type and currently i'm using the Stug III Ausf. F, what type of shell should i use for long range effective penetration and damage(500m-1000m)? For now i am using the Pz GR40 APCR for long range, it does penetrate but judging for the points i gained i don't do much damage. Can any experienced player here enlighten me regarding this? thanks a bunch. :Ds

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There are certain times where I have seen shells go right through enemy tanks that seemingly left them undamaged. I don't know if anyone noticed or knows about this or if it's a game glitch, but if it's true that shells can go through tanks undamaging them, what is the advice of avoiding this and ensuring you do damage to them?

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HI guys im new to WT: Ground Forces, i am using the German TD (Tank Destroyer) which is my favorite type and currently i'm using the Stug III Ausf. F, what type of shell should i use for long range effective penetration and damage(500m-1000m)? For now i am using the Pz GR40 APCR for long range, it does penetrate but judging for the points i gained i don't do much damage. Can any experienced player here enlighten me regarding this? thanks a bunch. :Ds

 

You want to use APHE  (of any type) or APCBC.  APHE is armour piercing high explosive, and APCBC is armour piercing composite balistic capped.  Composite is just another form of armour piercing high explosive round. The amour piercing high explosive rounds do far more damage than other rounds, and if you aim just under the turret ring of any tank, it will explode in a way that goes up into the turret, giving you the potential to knock out all the crew in one shot.

Now for the other part of your question, it all depends on the ammo for penetration at distance.  Generally at extreme distances APCR has less penetration than standard rounds.  APCR penetration drops off more or less depending on the APCR shell, so in each case you will have to look. If you mouse over the shell type either in the modifications window, or when choosing ammo loadout when selecting a tank while in battle, it will show you the armour penetration values for each shell.  So what I do when I am grinding a tank is to see at what range APCR is no longer better than the standard shell.

 

So using the stugg F for example:

 

The APCR is still better than the standard APCBC at 1000m which is actually fairly unusual.  Generally in other tanks they are the same or worse at that range. At your tier though the penetration of the APCBC at 1000m is still good enough to penetrate pretty much anything except for a hetzer maybe, so you should use the APCBC pretty much all of the time.  The only time you will want APCR is for shooting at heavy tanks who are angled to you and you cant get an effective penetration with standard rounds.

 

HEAT is the ultimate extreme range shell, but for the stugg F it is a waste.  The low velocity of the shell arcs high and takes forever to get to the target making it much harder to hit targets, especially over 1000m away which is where it gets its benefit over APCR.  It is only a good round to carry for tanks that don't get APCR.

 

Some other info:

 

Ballistic capped makes the projectile more accurate, but lessens the armour penetration slightly.  You see this on the soviet line with the 85mm guns, where they get APHEBC and APHE with slightly more penetration.

 

There are some APC rounds which are armour piercing capped (NOT composite).  The cap is there so the shell doesnt break up on impact so generally the cap is so that the shell can be fired at a higher velocity and have a bit more armour penetration.  It doesn't explode when it gets inside the tank though, but will do more damage than APCR since APCR is a smaller caliber round than the standard rounds for the same gun.

Edited by Lord_Tao
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There are certain times where I have seen shells go right through enemy tanks that seemingly left them undamaged. I don't know if anyone noticed or knows about this or if it's a game glitch, but if it's true that shells can go through tanks undamaging them, what is the advice of avoiding this and ensuring you do damage to them?

 

 

There is a bug where you get a +1 exp hit but do no module damage.  Although you can go straight through a tank and do no damage such as using APCR in tier 1 on the side armour of tanks, the +1exp bug happens with APHE ammo which is supposed to explode after it penetrates the armour, and also happens on tanks that you don't have an excessive amount of armour penetration against.  This bug seems to be an issue with the tanks you shoot at rather than the ammo, so there is not much you can do about it since it happens alot with some tanks and not others.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You want to use APHE  (of any type) or APCBC.  APHE is armour piercing high explosive, and APCBC is armour piercing composite balistic capped.  Composite is just another form of armour piercing high explosive round. The amour piercing high explosive rounds do far more damage than other rounds, and if you aim just under the turret ring of any tank, it will explode in a way that goes up into the turret, giving you the potential to knock out all the crew in one shot.

Now for the other part of your question, it all depends on the ammo for penetration at distance.  Generally at extreme distances APCR has less penetration than standard rounds.  APCR penetration drops off more or less depending on the APCR shell, so in each case you will have to look. If you mouse over the shell type either in the modifications window, or when choosing ammo loadout when selecting a tank while in battle, it will show you the armour penetration values for each shell.  So what I do when I am grinding a tank is to see at what range APCR is no longer better than the standard shell.

 

So using the stugg F for example:

 

The APCR is still better than the standard APCBC at 1000m which is actually fairly unusual.  Generally in other tanks they are the same or worse at that range. At your tier though the penetration of the APCBC at 1000m is still good enough to penetrate pretty much anything except for a hetzer maybe, so you should use the APCBC pretty much all of the time.  The only time you will want APCR is for shooting at heavy tanks who are angled to you and you cant get an effective penetration with standard rounds.

 

HEAT is the ultimate extreme range shell, but for the stugg F it is a waste.  The low velocity of the shell arcs high and takes forever to get to the target making it much harder to hit targets, especially over 1000m away which is where it gets its benefit over APCR.  It is only a good round to carry for tanks that don't get APCR.

 

Some other info:

 

Ballistic capped makes the projectile more accurate, but lessens the armour penetration slightly.  You see this on the soviet line with the 85mm guns, where they get APHEBC and APHE with slightly more penetration.

 

There are some APC rounds which are armour piercing capped (NOT composite).  The cap is there so the shell doesnt break up on impact so generally the cap is so that the shell can be fired at a higher velocity and have a bit more armour penetration.  It doesn't explode when it gets inside the tank though, but will do more damage than APCR since APCR is a smaller caliber round than the standard rounds for the same gun.

Thank you so much for the information Lord_Tao~!  really appreciate these information. Now i'm using the APCBC more than APCR in range like 100m - 800m which proof effective and more damage  :)  by the way do you know how the Russian Ammo load work? im currently testing the APHEBC which has HE in it and wanna know more about it so i can proceed with the right choices.

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Thank you so much for the information Lord_Tao~!  really appreciate these information. Now i'm using the APCBC more than APCR in range like 100m - 800m which proof effective and more damage  :)  by the way do you know how the Russian Ammo load work? im currently testing the APHEBC which has HE in it and wanna know more about it so i can proceed with the right choices.

 

Russian ammo is pretty straightforward since it is almost all APHE of some variety.  There are some AP or APC shells in some of the lower tier tanks, or on the 1941, and 1942 t-34s, but they are a waste of time.  Generally you only want to research the shell with the best armour penetration for those rare cases that you need the extra penetration.  Going from APHE to AP or APC for 7mm of armour penetration just doesn't make a difference the way the battle tiers are laid out for those tanks.

The only real exceptions in the russian line are for the su-122, kv-2, su-152, and isu-152. 

 

The su-122 you want to use HE shells mostly. HEAT for tanks with armour 60mm thick and above (hetzers, tigers, panthers, higher tier tank destroyers, tanks with spaced armour such as the pz4 G and H and the pz 3 L and M).

 

The kv-2 has an anti concrete round with 150mm of penetration which is actually better than its HE round, but either round is fine.

The su-152 has an APHE round which is good, but can lack some penetration.  You will want to carry HE shells for use on Panthers and some other heavily armour tanks (aim HE shells just under the gun barrel or at the turret ring)

 

The isu-152 APHE rounds are completely useless at its tier, and the he shells are currently useless at its tier (until they model HE rounds a bit better).  The HEAT rounds are what you want to use with it.

The long barrel 122mm guns are useless against the front armour of king tigers, ferdinands, and jagtigers so you may want to try HE rounds and aim for the turret ring.  The HE explosion so close to the very thin top deck armour will cause the top deck armour to spall doing massive damage to the tank.

Edited by Lord_Tao
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  • 3 weeks later...

Thank you so much again ~!  i'm curious why the need to use alot HEAT rounds though, do these tanks lack of APHE or its pretty useless at higher tier to use it? 007_3.png

 

HEAT is useful only at the low tiers where it has much higher penetration.  It is included in later tiers (like on the tiger) simply for historical accuracy.  Essentially APCR is all you need asside from the standard shell. 

 

The only tanks that lack APHE or the early german tanks.  I believe the panzer 3s with the long 5cm are the first to get AP composite which is a form of APHE.

Edited by Lord_Tao
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Can you tell me how to switch ammo?

 

I have researched and now I need to switch ammo types but I can't switch . all help would be very welcomed .

thanks 

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Can you tell me how to switch ammo?

 

I have researched and now I need to switch ammo types but I can't switch . all help would be very welcomed .

thanks 

First off, in the vehicle selection screen before battle (or after you die), select a vehicle.  There are sliders for each of the different types of ammo you currently have available for your vehicle.  Use the sliders to choose the amount of whatever ammo you want.  **Note that currently you cant switch the order of the shells, unless you have 5 different choices.

 

In game, the shell types that you have loaded out should be assigned to keys 1-4.  SImply press those numbers to switch the shell.  **note that if your gun is loaded it won't automatically switch the shell so you will have to fire it off to change the load out.

 

 

Also note that there is virtually no use for High explosive rounds, except on large caliber guns such as the 122mm or 152mm.

 

You should carry about 1/3 of your rounds as APCR or HEAT for added penetration.  The other 2/3 should be the best AP type you have (such as APHE).  HEAT and APCR don't do as much damage, so use them when your standard rounds can't penetrate.

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