[Work in Progress] Heinkel He 277

[HolyDuckTurtle 1,675]

As mentioned earlier, this isn't finished, isn't it clear enough that I'm still working on it? And if the " overall polycount is not interesting" then why did you bring it up in you're previous post...... Oh and one more thing I personally would like to see you do better in 5 days, if not then stop complaining and wait for me to get more done on it.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that everything that is done in 3Dsmax is just making sore the axis are correct to import into CDK and so on so forth.

 

There is also a lot of stuff involving hierachies, not sure if they translate well when exporting. Take a look at their plane creation guide and see what needs to be done, there's a lot of work to do :p

 

As for the model itself while certainly far from finished it will be a good idea to start planning ahead on where best to use the polycount since you've got the shape and general feel for the plane down. For when you eventually start optimising it for the game I suggest taking lots away from the guns (due to their size and distance from the camera they don't need to be that detailed, the sight for example could be a simple plane with an alpha map) and rear areas of the cockpit (I say rear because the large open glass nose will likely mean you'll need more detail in there than other planes in the game, so some front detail should be kept). - Best thing when you get to that stage would be to look at similar aircraft ingame and see how the devs have distrubuted detail.

 

Keep up the good work :D

[Flying_pig 4,228]

i have taken the simpler approach, make 3 versions and one of them should have the proper lod for everyones computer ^^

[InnerCircle 1,418]

too many errors, and extreme far from "finished" anything considered finished.

 

many polygons were they not needed, lack of detail where detail is needed.

 

 

the overall polycount is not interesting, its the distribution.

 

 

show us some of your work then...

[Lemsko 8,313]

show us some of your work then...

 

dont get fooled by poly count, its face count. (1 poly in an editable mesh is usually a rectangle containing 2 triangles (faces))

 

its all about consistence. the he277 is on many parts wrong in shape (turrets, wing profile, nose), the level of detail is not consistent over the whole frame.

maximum polycount is exactly that, maximum. maximum should not be your goal. the goal should be getting the most detail available with the least amount of faces.

 

 

 

keep in mind that everything shown here has no more than 7k faces or in case of the k61 here even below 4k! These game engines could handle 30k max, of course the game wouldnt run smooth if you would have used what was technically possible.

 

[attachment=67298:ki61.png]

 

are you satisfied enough now that i know what i am talking about?

[_Kay_51995 144]

There is also a lot of stuff involving hierachies, not sure if they translate well when exporting. Take a look at their plane creation guide and see what needs to be done, there's a lot of work to do :p

 

As for the model itself while certainly far from finished it will be a good idea to start planning ahead on where best to use the polycount since you've got the shape and general feel for the plane down. For when you eventually start optimising it for the game I suggest taking lots away from the guns (due to their size and distance from the camera they don't need to be that detailed, the sight for example could be a simple plane with an alpha map) and rear areas of the cockpit (I say rear because the large open glass nose will likely mean you'll need more detail in there than other planes in the game, so some front detail should be kept). - Best thing when you get to that stage would be to look at similar aircraft ingame and see how the devs have distrubuted detail.

 

Keep up the good work :D

Cheers! :D  I'll definitely keep that in mind from now on.

[Kaennox 84]

If Gaijin were to re-work them then what would be the point in making them in the first place? 'Cause then the aircraft wouldn't be the original user created one...

I didn't want to say complete re-work...
But you said you have some pixelated blah blah blueprints and you can't use them preoperly so you have to use your eyes to adjust. And if Gaijin would take a look here and see what it's a bit wrong..they would correct it with other blueprints since they can get a good one...guessing that it's easier to correct/adjust a model that doing it again from scrap.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Kaennox

[_Kay_51995 144]

I didn't want to say complete re-work...
But you said you have some pixelated blah blah blueprints and you can't use them preoperly so you have to use your eyes to adjust. And if Gaijin would take a look here and see what it's a bit wrong..they would correct it with other blueprints since they can get a good one...guessing that it's easier to correct/adjust a model that doing it again from scrap.

I guess you kinda have a point, sometimes I need to think a bit more before I say something...    ._.

[Flying_pig 4,228]

dont get fooled by poly count, its face count. (1 poly in an editable mesh is usually a rectangle containing 2 triangles (faces))

 

its all about consistence. the he277 is on many parts wrong in shape (turrets, wing profile, nose), the level of detail is not consistent over the whole frame.

maximum polycount is exactly that, maximum. maximum should not be your goal. the goal should be getting the most detail available with the least amount of faces.

 

 

 

keep in mind that everything shown here has no more than 7k faces or in case of the k61 here even below 4k! These game engines could handle 30k max, of course the game wouldnt run smooth if you would have used what was technically possible.

 

ki61.png

 

are you satisfied enough now that i know what i am talking about?

So you've modeled a care with only 10k poly's ok... this guys modeled an entire 4 engine heavy bomber using just 20k... thats pretty impressive... and in fact this is a really low poly model...not to mention Gaijin uses low poly models so that people with toasters can run the game well on their computers, no one has really tested (to my knowledge) how many polygons the game can take or how it will handle higher polygon models. (I have reason to believe it can though based off the number of units they said they had made missions with). This is why the A-20 is getting 3 versions, the one I am working on now (max) is gonna be no details spared as a test to see how the game handles it. So really this guy here should be keeping up the good work and you can probably let him be...

[Nabutso 13,131]

Good model != high poly count is what Lemsko just said yet you ignored it and said "PFFT NICE CAR IT ONLY HAS 7k".

 

the hell?

[Lemsko 8,313]

im always surprised how you can change my words.

 

where do you read 10k poly as used for a car?

 

complete wrong shapes like wing profiles, turrets, complete nose section........ then it doesnt matter how many polys he used. he is already at 20k with missing a lot of details needed for the bomber, including interior, control surface attachments etc.

 

i suggest you look in your hangar at planes and try to copy the basic shape properties you see there and use that as basic setup.

[_Kay_51995 144]

dont get fooled by poly count, its face count. (1 poly in an editable mesh is usually a rectangle containing 2 triangles (faces))

 

its all about consistence. the he277 is on many parts wrong in shape (turrets, wing profile, nose), the level of detail is not consistent over the whole frame.

maximum polycount is exactly that, maximum. maximum should not be your goal. the goal should be getting the most detail available with the least amount of faces.

 

 

 

keep in mind that everything shown here has no more than 7k faces or in case of the k61 here even below 4k! These game engines could handle 30k max, of course the game wouldnt run smooth if you would have used what was technically possible.

 

ki61.png

 

are you satisfied enough now that i know what i am talking about?

I was well aware from the start that you knew what you were talking about, what bugs me is the fact that you are completely oblivious to the fact that the title says "Work in Progress", therefor I still have work to do. And the wings, turrets and nose are the right shape... otherwise I would have adjusted them... And the KI61 is VERY different in comparison to the He 277, and I'm not trying to achieve max polycount and the detail is consistent, I know this for a fact because I always have images of the He 277 while I'm making it. So stop jumping to conclusions about what I'm aiming to do just because this isn't finished.

Edited April 22, 2014 by _Kay_51995

[Lemsko 8,313]

believe me your approach is not helpful for you at the end.

 

the detail is not consistent over the model

 

you really want to argue with a ex professional 3d artist for real time applications?

[Tsundere2k 9,686]

and its still WIP and far from done obviously..

 

why dont you make it better lemsko? -.- dont see you having a thread here in the forum about he277 or do335 or ju 188 or short sunderland or whatever else is missing in game and release tree

[_Kay_51995 144]

im always surprised how you can change my words.

 

where do you read 10k poly as used for a car?

 

complete wrong shapes like wing profiles, turrets, complete nose section........ then it doesnt matter how many polys he used. he is already at 20k with missing a lot of details needed for the bomber, including interior, control surface attachments etc.

 

i suggest you look in your hangar at planes and try to copy the basic shape properties you see there and use that as basic setup.

 

Are you blind? I have posted an image on here with the interior which I'm working on, same goes to control surfaces. I've only been working on this for 6 days...

 

Just finished reducing the polycount and stuff :D

Vertices: 39518 - 34182

Faces: 21827 - 18802

Tris: 48537 - 41676

Edited April 22, 2014 by _Kay_51995

[Lemsko 8,313]

Are you blind? I have posted an image on here with the interior which I'm working on, same goes to control surfaces. I've only been working on this for 6 days...

 

Just finished reducing the polycount and stuff :D

Vertices: 39518 - 34182

Faces: 21827 - 18802

Tris: 48537 - 41676

 

start new, really...it will be better. start low and then add detail. get the basic shapes right before doing the whole object.

 

 

i tell you a secret: not being able to accept critics is BIG NO NO in that area, same goes for FM modellers.

 

I can predict you will have to do the airframe again from scratch since you didnt put thought into the planing.

 

might hurt your feelings........how do you think i started........yes with redoing stuff multiple times.

 

and no i am not blind, i just dont want you to waste more time. better restart, this will be easier then trying to fix your stuff later.

 

but sure stay ignorant and see critics as personal attacks, only you should know then that you wont improve and you wont be able to deliver something which gets accepted ------ i thought thats your goal.

 

I slowly get it why my friends who are teachers are so frustrated all the time....they have to deal with such mindset on a daily basis.

 

 

To Vulture2k: Too funny, you ask a professional to try to make it better? Why dont you buy the games where my work is included, then you can make your own mind.

[Flying_pig 4,228]

You do realize the typical high quality addon for flight sims runs around 150-200k polygons correct?
This is a insanely low poly model...

[Lemsko 8,313]

you do realize that you dont even know what "insanely low poly model" means.

 

please go to a 3d forum and ask that question.

 

for that polycount he used its not good. if you dont want critics then dont post wips.

 

the truth is he will do the model at least a 2nd time from scratch, if not for a 3rd time. sure he will be able to use part of the work.

 

here are some of the biggest errors just looking at it from 1 angle.

 

[attachment=67495:error.png]

 

and that are not even all erros seen on that pic.

[_Kay_51995 144]

you do realize that you dont even know what "insanely low poly model" means.

 

please go to a 3d forum and ask that question.

 

for that polycount he used its not good. if you dont want critics then dont post wips.

 

the truth is he will do the model at least a 2nd time from scratch, if not for a 3rd time. sure he will be able to use part of the work.

 

here are some of the biggest errors just looking at it from 1 angle.

 

error.png

 

and that are not even all erros seen on that pic.

The nose and fuselage were made like that on the original He 277, same goes to the shape of the glass nose, The propellers are the right shape and the engine nacelles and the wings were attached in that exact fashion. Learn more about German bombers before saying things are wrong. I already have re-done the fuselage, that's how the polycount was lowered, there are alredy numerous other parts of the aircraft that have been re-done.

Edited April 22, 2014 by _Kay_51995

[unkel_bubi 437]

You do realize the typical high quality addon for flight sims runs around 150-200k polygons correct?
This is a insanely low poly model...

Flight sim enthusiast who buy single plane addons for 50 bucks usually have good hardware. People who play a F2P game are a completely different crowd.

 

Other than that everything Lemsko said is true.

[Kocyra 5,742]

Sweetness!

[Nabutso 13,131]

 

 

The nose and fuselage were made like that on the original He 277

I can guarantee you the flat face at the front of the fuselage simply didn't exist. You're mis-interpreting your references.

This: 

Does not mean this: 

 

 

 

The propellers are the right shape

They're too long and too thin. Don't look at a picture of the He-277 to model the prop, look up what prop it had and then model that onto it.

 

 

 

engine nacelles and the wings were attached in that exact fashion

You literally just have the wing going straight through the fuselage like it's attached in through a long slot. You missed every possible detail while modeling where the wing meets the fuselage.

 

Don't take encouragement from FP, he's also an amateur modeler like you. Lemsko is the most trustworthy, objective, and straight-to-the-point guy that WILL tell you if you're wrong, and he won't say it unless he's sure of it. 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Nabutso

[_Kay_51995 144]

Flight sim enthusiast who buy single plane addons for 50 bucks usually have good hardware. People who play a F2P game are a completely different crowd.

 

Other than that everything Lemsko said is true.

Not always, you can get people who play both flight sims and F2P games who have good hard ware, and sometimes they don't even play flight sims and still have good hardware.

 

Sweetness!

Cheers! :D

[Roguesaber 326]

Whoa... 18,000 faces? I have 18,000 faces on a sketchup model I use for CGI movie making and I can't use real-time rendering with it, and that's with me coloring it by faces instead of using textures (I'm bad at texture work).  It'd probably be half that number if I did texturing conventionally.

 

This model is far too detailed for a f2p game like War Thunder.  Especially since you haven't added some of the interior work yet.  I'd suggest going in and manually cutting down the number of polygons.  Does anyone know how many polygons are in say the B-17 model we have in game?  We need a reference to just how detailed we should make the models.

[Flying_pig 4,228]

dude... for the enth time... this is fairly low poly by add on plane standards... if your computer is having issues with 18,000 faces UPGRADE YOUR COMPUTER! 

[unkel_bubi 437]

Read the guide: http://warthunder.com/tech-data/tech-req-aircraft-en.pdf

 

 

LODs and polygon count

The figures below are recommended:

For complex models overhead of 5-10k

is allowed.

● LOD0 – around 40-50k

triangles for fighters and 45-60k

for bombers

● LOD1 – around 12-16k

tris for fighters and 14-20

tris for bombers

● LOD2 – around 1,000-1,500

tris

● LOD3 – up to 150 triangles