Lunatic242

Guide for the Avro Lancaster mk III

  

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                                            Avro Lancaster Mk.III
                                                                                                                  Heavy Strategic Night Bomber
                                                                                                            Avro_Lancaster_Mk._III.png


Introduction:
The Avro Lancaster is the last bomber of the British bomber branch in War Thunder currently. In World War II (WWII) this bomber has been one of the most legendary bombers of WWII and became famous for having am extraordinary large payload, The lancaster can use any bomb the RAF had ever made durring WWII and then some specialized bombs like the 22,000 lb 'Grandslam' earthquake bomb and the 9,250 lb 'upkeep' bouncing bomb just to name a few.  In War Thunder it currently has a very limited payload compared to it's flexible payload of World War II and small payload. It's flight peformance in War Thunder is also worse then real life and it is regarded as a huge disappointment for fans and players in War Thunder being a poor bomber compared to the infamous Yer/Er-2 and B-17 bombers.

Keep in mind, this guide is assuming you know something about in bombers and in depth, if you do not understand some words or what some thing means, go to the lowest part of this guide for a glossary, there will be some visuals included as well.

The guide assumes you did not change the controls from default, the control set is "Mouse aim - Advance", if you are not using this control scheme and devices try and adapt it to your device and control scheme.
Controls isn't that important from what I know so do not panic that you can't do something due to using another device ie. Game pad or Joystick or a controller. 

And remember kids, this is a Night Time bomber, it's no flying fortress.


Positives:

  • It is the most agile heavy bomber in game and can out turn some single engine fighters
  • 2nd highest payload in game (excluding Yer-2 variants)
  • Can take quite a good amount of damage, situationally including the 37mm's
  • like the wellington, it can carry the current biggest bomb in war thunder, how ever it carries 2 instead of 1. the 4000 lb 'cookie'
  • It can belly land very well, even at high speeds for a landing and also can survive a landing failure.
  • Like all other British and American bombers, it has "Protective Vests" as a possible upgrade to protect your crew from shrapnel caused by explosive cannon rounds and flak. 

Negatives:

  • Compared to other bombers of it's tier and battle rating it has low gunner defenses. (B-17, B-24, G8N1, G5N1) and can have lower defenses then tier 3 bombers.
  • In some cases it is missing 50% of it's historic quantity/ weight of it's payload and is missing quite a few other payload options. 
  • It has a FM bug similar to the wellington about the elevator and trim to a slightly less degree. This makes it hard for it to land at times, making you continuously bounce of the runway. 
  • Slower then most other bombers from tier 3+
  • Has worse Flight performance then it does in real life, this includes thrust and climb rate specifically.

Okay, Now that you got a brief idea on how this plane works, I will add a few final comments here before we continue to how to make it work. First off all this plane still has room for improvement, better payloads, better thrust/ acceleration and even the RADAR assisted gunners it had in real life. I personally like this plane but it's far from being finished.

Payload:

  • 6 x 500 lbs, 8 x 250 lbs (stock
    AUBC No.1 Mk.II pylon
  • 2 x 250 lbs,  1 x AN-M65(A1) 1000 lbs, 6 x 500 lbs
  • 3 x 250 lbs,  6 x AN-M65(A1) 1000 lbs
    AUBC No.I Mk.I Pylon
  • 14 x 500 lbs
  • 2 x 4000 lbs
     

Spoiling due to DM changes, will be under a spoiler and ignored until further notice
[spoiler]Defenses:

3 gunners, 3 guns.

Ammo belts:

- Default:                             T/AP/AP-I/Ball/Ball/I
- Armored Targets:              T/AP/AP/AP
- Universal:                           T/AP-I/AP-I/AP-I
 

  • 4 x 7.7mm Browning Machineguns
    Location: Tail
    Type
     FN-20 turret
    Can turn 180 degrees, pitches 170 degrees
    [spoiler] j0ISAHb.jpg[/spoiler]

     
  • 2 x 7.7mm Browning Machineguns
    Location: Nose
    Type: FN-5A
    Can turn and pitch 170 degrees
    [spoiler] H4JN0uo.jpg[/spoiler]

     
  • 2 x 7.7mm Browning  Machineguns
    Location: Upper-mid
    Type: 
    FN-50
    Can turn full 360 degrees
    Can pitch up from horizontal 80 degrees roughly and pitch under 10 degrees
    (meaning it fires lower then it should irl because the bullets pass through your cockpit and wings)

    [spoiler] ORyfYuj.jpg[/spoiler]

7.7mm: "they do poor damage!"

Here are some things to remember.

  1. They may not do as much instantaneous damage as 20 mm's or 12.7mm's, but The longer you hit them the more damage you cause,  Due to the shear amount of lead spitting out of your gunners you got a higher chance of hitting the enemy. I suggest you to use Universal rack as it is the best of dealing with most planes you will see at this BR/ Tier. Armored Targets is better in different situations for example against heavy fighters or certain jets.
  2. They fire more bullets then higher cal guns, meaning you got more incendiaries flying into your enemies increasing the chance of fire
  3. There effective range is from 0.6km closer, You can still hit enemies at 1.0 km away but not as effectively as 12.7mm's

This means that Your main focus of gunners is behind the Lancaster (4 x 7.7mm + 2 x 7.7mm), Use this to your advantage.

The second best focus of firepower is the front (2 x 7.7mm + 2 x 7.7mm) so this is usefull, you can use this to save your friend infront.

You can use the Lancaster aggressively but we will cover this up in a different section of this guide bellow.
Now that we gave you the brief statistics and information about the lancaster i.e payload, turrets, performance.
Let's talk about what you can do with what you know now.


[/spoiler]

Bombing:
 

The Lancaster is a wonderful bomber when you learn how to use it and you can be, If you make all the right moves, unstoppable. How ever the map and what the enemies fly is the main variable to your success.

High Altitude Bombing:
 

The Avro Lancaster handles itself lovely at high altitude, it starts at 3000 meters on most maps as well as other bombers so you are at the min safe altitude from German jets, keep that in mind.  No Me 262 or He 162 will harm you if you don't drop down.

I personally use 3rd person view when bombing, my reason is that you can see if you are leveled or not and see how accurate your bomb will fall or not. (if the X is touching in center, that's good, if not, you are diving/ climbing to steeply or your banking to much)

To hit a target you need to get your X right onto the enemy, try getting the bright middle square from the X right ontop of the enemy selection box so it should be roughly filling it up with it. (can't get good screenshot of this as it seems to have a delay and the screenshot looks like I missed it)

To look down with 3rd person view you can use the numpad. Tap number 2 to look down.
Depending on your altitude and angle of climb/ dive, It can range from tapping it once, twice, or even three times.
Remember, when you are down bombing or you need to revert the camera back to normal press 5 once on the numpad.

As you are approaching your target, you will see something like this.

[spoiler]
QhYSS9a.jpg

[/spoiler]

To make some course corrections move your mouse ever so slightly left or right, in RB, things are pretty sensitive for bombers so it will take time to adjust if your an arcade player.
The white/ grey little arrow above is where your mouse is, the reason it is an arrow is because it is off the screen.

If you seem to be on course but your bomb aim is not going to hit the target, try banking a little bit by using A and D keys. D (bank right) will make your aim go right, A (bank left) will make your aim go left.
When you do this you slightly drift to the direction, and you will also start leveling out (unless you are using joystick controls), If you bank to much your aim will be less accurate and at that point your plane will start to turn which isn't what you want to do.
This correction method can also help you bomb multiple targets in a pass if they are close to each other but not exactly in a straight line or lined up for you.

If you go bombing for strategic targets (also known as "mini base" or "Micro base") and if you can't see it properly due to weather such as clouds or rain, aim bellow the point of the sign for it, if you aim on it then your bombs will miss as it is often shown above the target and not on it.

The altitude advantage is strong for you as when enemies meet you they are often not above you and they are leveled or bellow you, (depending on enemy and how much time passed)
This gives you time while they are climbing to you/ catching up to turn around and point your tail towards them, as they get into firing range you are prepared to blaze your guns at them. (will talk about engagement in a segment bellow) 

The altitude also gives you other advantages, such as cloud cover which can help a great deal.
It also prevents most AA and AAA's firing at you, and if they do, you should be in an altitude high enough to make them to inaccurate to be a threat. (base AAA's may require a higher altitude of engagement to be safe)

 

Also you can convert that altitude into speed, you won't out run most enemy aircraft, but it is still faster RTB then your regular speed, you should be going about 300-500 km/h , but be careful to not over speed. try and stay at 540 and bellow during the dive, to prevent your wings breaking.

Lastly, you staying up at altitude will mean that the friendly fighters will be at your altitude near your location on most maps and such, And people can help you if you are engaged.

Some things to keep in mind:
Some maps enemies will start at altitude then Britain, Climb off to the side if you need to or try and sticking to the fighters more.
Some enemies will have ease climbing up to you like the Me 163.
Some players are to smart to engage you that poorly and will try to attack you from bellow where your blind spot is or attack you with a dive from the side or front.
If you can use the bomb view effectively then use that instead of 3rd person view. 




Low Altitude Bombing:

A contrast to the previous bombing method, this method involves you staying low to engage your ground targets more accurately and to use your turrets to attack lightly armored targets like AAA, Artillery, Howitzers, landing craft, vehicles, etc.

Some people prefer to go low altitude in the lancaster as it has no belly or dorsal gunner, so low alt will help prevent enemies coming at your blind spot. On certain maps this is best as your targets are on an uneven surface and it is easier to hit an object that isn't your target or miss.  How ever it does expose you to AAA's more and you will not have as many options as before to prevent being attacked or running away. Low altitude is also the best method to engage tanks and naval vessels, how ever tanks are sometimes accompanied with mobile AAA which can be deadly or be no threat (beware of Korea mobile aaa) and Naval vessels have AAA some would think is more powerful then base aaa's.

I would suggest using low alt bombing only after most enemies are dead or after you landed and took off as it is hard to get back at altitude from 0 meters altitude and needing to gain speed then at 3000 meters altitude already at speed.

Another positive about low alt bombing is that all your friendlies is above you, which mean they can BnZ people who attack you, the side effect is enemies are also above you, and they will BnZ you making it harder to hit the fast moving enemy aircraft. To line up some shots you can use the same tactic as high altitude bombing to get some nice kill streaks and combos. 
[spoiler] 
If you seem to be on course but your bomb aim is not going to hit the target, try banking a little bit by using A and D keys. D (bank right) will make your aim go right, A (bank left) will make your aim go left.
When you do this you slightly drift to the direction, and you will also start leveling out (unless you are using joystick controls), If you bank to much your aim will be less accurate and at that point your plane will start to turn which isn't what you want to do.
This correction method can also help you bomb multiple targets in a pass if they are close to each other but not exactly in a straight line or lined up for you.[/spoiler]

Tank and naval bombing is on the 2nd post at the top.

Base Altitude Bombing:

Keep in mind some maps are better to do this then others.
Some maps have no strategic targets to eliminate before you go to the main airfield, some maps got 1 extra strategic target (4 in total) then normal (which is 3). 
I highly suggest you to climb for base bombing to prevent yourself dying to AAA at the base. 
I would suggest using the 2 x 4000 lbs payload option for base bombing as 1 x 4000 lbs can kill a micro base, so you can clear up the micro bases faster then with the other options. You also do more damage with a 2 x 4000 lbs bomb then say a 14 x 500 lbs.  6 x 1000 lbs + 3 x 250 lbs may be another option for base bombing but the 3 x 250 lbs will do little to no damage, use those on the AAA's.

Like most bombing in this game, the game does not award you for carpet bombing, try and spread out  the time of your drops and not just mash your keyboard to drop everything. Aim for the middle of the runway and avoid the edges if possible.


-Base ambush

If you are on a map that has no targets worthy of attacking or nothing you like attacking (eg korea, for high alt bombers you can only kill the 1 bridge). Then you may try and lurk at high alt near the cloud or just under it so you can see bellow but they can't see you. Try and have some friendly under cloud cover and to spot the enemy for you or someone around the area to tell if someone is landing. When they are starting to land dive onto them and drop your bombs as they landed, do it to early and they will spot you and most likely take off again or try and evade where they think the bombs will hit, Do it to late and people with upgraded ground service crew will already respawn at the end of the runway and take off.  Do this at your own risk and avoid over speeding.


Dive Bombing:

Nope, don't do that, your a heavy bomber.
HOW EVER, you can dive, gain speed, this will drop your altitude and for some people will make it easier to bomb, or maybe drop out of cloud cover.
You level out before you reach your target, drop your bombs while you are leveled, then climb back up/ into the clouds after you are done with your quick bombing. Beware of over speeding.


Fighting:

I know what you thinking, "fighting in a lancaster?!?!? Are you a lunatic!?", well I am technically, but that's not the point. -cough cough username-
But the lancaster isn't actually a half bad fighter if you are skilled at using gunners and controlling your plane while you are gunning or have faith in your ai gunners.
The lancaster got 4 x 7.7mm in the nose but that is still enough to win  as you got a lot more durability then other fighters and your lancaster can out turn some fighters as I said earlier.

Enough of me saying it isn't as crazy as it seems and time for me to tell you how to use it as a fighter. And keep in mind that you did not select the lancaster and hit ready just to engage the first thing you see.
This is more of a emergency or last resort kind of deal, for example you are in a bomber 'formation' with your friends, you can dive down and engage the enemy on your friend and open fire with your front guns 

You can also help people with issues with enemy planes, If enemies ignore you, you can easily get on there tail. If the enemy wants to attack you, level out, fly straight, and blaze your rear gunners at him ,the bonus of this is the person you just helped can engage the distracted enemy or RTB to repair and rearm if s/he is critical

You can also attempt to use the enemies disadvantage to your advantage, open your flaps and drop your engine and purposely fly slow, the Lancaster can fly slower then most other planes, if someone isn't thinking clearly and/or isn't intelligent when attacking you, you will end up with a plane fighting to stay in the air on your tail  rather then trying to attack you, Fire at there engine or wing and they are toast.


Take Off:
The take off for this plane is rather simple, pull your throttle  up (do not WEP) and pull off the runway at 170 km/h to 200 km/h + Make sure to not turn so quickly after take off or your large wing may hit the runway or objects around the area how ever this depends strongly on the map

Landing:
Now this is not as simple as Take off. You got the issue with your FM, A few suggestions I can make is use flaps as it makes things easier slightly to land, but not to control the plane sadly, the Lancaster can already fly at a slower speed then other planes. try and approach the runway, when your near to landing, aim for 200-170 km/h, 150-100 km/h should be how fast you are going when you are above the runway about to land. As you are landing  try and not bounce of the runway as much as possible, you will notice that you are pulling the plane down more then you are trying to pull it up like you do with most planes to prevent crashing, If you do it correctly you will not have that much of a bounce or non at all and the rest of the landing is normal, when you are under 90 km/h try pulling up to counter the possible flip of using the breaks. If you are not to comfortable landing yet try landing on the longest runway on the map if there is more then one. Try and come down being leveled, as if your in a slight dive you will have higher chance of bouncing.

Crash Landing:
Unlike some aircraft, the Lancaster can belly land pretty well, The Lancaster can crash land safely at even at speed of 300 km/h on the belly, at speed you may loose your engines and body how ever you are in one piece and will repair, at lower speeds you may pull it off to not damage anything how ever this may be hard due to some funny engine to ground detection box, You're gunners will most likely survive but the tail may die. Your tail might possibly fall off at high speeds if you don't land to goodly but you will still repair if all other things go well.  This can be better for maps with short runways and aircraft carriers instead of a normal runway but if all 4 engines die or your plane splits you are counted as 'dead' and the ticket counter will go down if you are the last human alive and will also add to your repair bill even if you are repaired before the game finishes.

Flight:
In level flight you will reach about 400 km/h if you use WEP and will be climbing at -3 degrees pitch but not by much, If you are not using WEP you will go 360km/h in level flight and will be climbing at -2 degrees not by much.
You should be climbing between 5 degrees to 3 degrees at the speed of 210 to 270 km/h, depending on if you want to climb higher by point B, or to be at point B with some climbing (roughly being the same alt with someone else who is doing the other but at different distances, it is best to do it steeper and a bit slower for base bombing till you get to a comfortable altitude.

After some time in flight your water may start to get to hot for comfort, or if you used WEP, so will your oil, just simply lower the throttle and climb at a shallower angle.

The lancaster can gather speed fast in a dive and can reach 550 km/h with ease, in a shallow dive you will sustain a 400+ km/h speed to your destination. Do not WEP on hot maps or for to long.
Lastly to mention it can climb well for a heavy bomber, how ever some other planes can out run it while climbing. 

If an enemy intercepts you while climbing or on your way back to base or to the battlefield, Try to gun them down or return to your friendly fighters, to avoid interceptions occuring, try climbing or diving of to the side when  you take off/ when the game starts to avoid to cross paths with a fighter..

Evasive maneuvers/ tricks/ misc:

At 500 km/h you can lower your throttle all the way back at pull back and do a loop, you can effectively drop your speed to 200 km/h faster then other aircraft can, even some with air breaks 
The lancaster can also pull tight high speed turns and loops, this can help you shake off enemies or delay them while a friendly is coming or to lower there energy. 

Another thing you can do is go in a dive, you may have a heavy fighter on you or a plane not agile, maybe a naughty B-17 who thinks it's superior speed and weapons will kill another bomber, while you go into a dive, aim at say, the base of a mountain or a cliff or something, then you pull up (make sure your not at 550+ km/h) and evade the obstacle while the enemy behind smashes into the mountain/ cliff. Due to your gunners firing at him/her while your in the dive, that will also count as a kill. This move is also good in Arcade when there is no over speeding. 

The Lancaster can dive faster up to roughly 600 km/h but I wouldn't risk it and play with the devil to much.

Corckscrew:

An evasive maneuver done in real life by lancaster pilots to help mess up enemy fire as well to enable it to open fire onto the enemy. JJWolf got it covered in this post here as well as a diagram on the link with more information.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/115445-guide-for-the-avro-lancaster-mk-iii/?p=2794059

Controlling individual engines is vital to your survival.

It can help you control your yaw or turn when you are critically damaged by turning of the engines on one side or help you recover from the 'bank of death' that is developing.
You can also turn of an individual engine if there is a fire.
The video only demonstrates turning them on or off, but you can set it at a specific throttle as well by changing your throttle instead of turning of your engine.

This could help you in a few situations. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x8zE41lLGE

Edited by Lunatic242
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Tank Bombing:

To bomb the enemy tanks you simply apply knowledge of what you know of level tank bombing to it, encase you need a refresher, you lead your bomb reticle in front of it, no more then the other dotted circle unless your are at high altitude which is not the smartest idea.  The lower you are, the more closer to the tank you aim, How ever be ware of the explosion of your bomb, You may add a timer delay to your bombs to escape the blast easily but you need to lead your aim more in front then. A good idea to where to aim is on the road they are on with the same lead distance if there are turns and such, if they are slightly off to the road then aim on the same side off to the road, Tanks are known for switching sides though so this may be a problem sometimes on tanks with seemingly random paths with no roads. Some tanks in RB will change course if a bomber is near, such as the Lancaster, how ever this behavior is rare and is only in a few maps, how ever this occurs in arcade. 

Reason why this is slightly vague is due to the fact not all tanks and ground vehicles travel the same speed and your lead distance does depend on your bomb delay and altitude. 

The Lancaster has an advantage over other bombers due to the high amount of 500 lbs it can carry (currently 14 x 500 lbs) which is decent for tank bombing and also it's agility helps to line up bombing runs across tanks instead of a lumbering bomber like a H6K4 or B-17. 

On some maps this is the only option and at near end game situations this can be down with lower risks. Not advised unless you dislike high altitude bombing.
Warning, tanks can often be accompanied with mobile aaa, certain nation and time period mobile aaa's can be deadlier then others, in some maps it's 100% harmless, in other maps you wish you never went close to it.


Naval Bombing:

Same as tank bombing but all naval vessels will fire at you, Destroyers and larger naval ships will have multiple anti air and multi purpose guns that are firing at you, ranging from 12.7mm's to 20mm's and bigger. Some naval AAA's can reach a long distance and high altitudes so be careful, you can bomb naval vesels at high altitude but clouds can be an issue, if your doing it at low altitude I suggest being at some altitude at roughly 5 km away, then dive on the destroyer and level out, the speed will help you get in and out fast and bring damage to a minimal . Remember 1 of your 500 lbs will take out a destroyer on a dirrect hit.

I will also note that a single 4000 lbs can kill a Carrier, how ever it has to hit near the control tower, I have personally have not mastered this art as all maps with carriers are rather useless and do not count as the main airfield, or are heavily defended. with a 2 lancaster squad with a good aim can easily win a game on New Guinea in one pass over the carriers. 3 can drop 2 x 4000 lbs and kill all carriers if it all hits.

Most naval craft move in a straight line, there speed depends on there class and map. Some carriers are stationary, some carriers move faster then others. some travel really slowly.


Skip bombing:

A method level bombers use to attack enemy ships with bombs at low altitude, can be down with a 500 to 2000 lbs bomb recommended but can be performed with smaller bombs at a low altitude 60-80m and at a speed 350 to 400 km/h, you can get this speed and altitude by diving but make sure to not break your wings when pulling up to hard and do not collide into the water or ship, generally you want to be leveled and drop your bombs at 20-100m away from the enemy ship.

Make sure to put a time delay on your bombs to prevent them from damaging you on your way out. ,4-5 seconds would be a good delay time but you can experiment.
This can help you get in and out of a risky area faster and also you can build up more bombs for larger targets by skimming multiple bombs instead of coming from a specific angle and attacking lengthways which may not agree with attacking multiple ships as most of the time they do not all travel the same specific direction. 

The main positive about this is it gives you a larger area to attack the ship then from above, how ever you may need some practice to peform this. If you do it right you should see your bomb skimming off the top of the water into your target hopefully, like throwing a smooth pebble. 

B-25's historically used this tactics a lot during the pacific theater but the Lancaster did a similar thing with the 'upkeep' bouncing bomb damn buster. How ever the bomb is more specilised for attacking damns and for bouncing more and longer distances then the regular bombs.

 

Schräge Musik - know your enemy.
 

http://coub.com/view/n0hr   (video by Gaijin Entertainment)

Schrage Musik is a fixed weapon mounted on a plane that fires upwards, used to take out enemy bombers at there weakest point, the bomb bay. (not designed in WT yet), where it would detonate the bombs, if any, and destroy the enemy aircraft.  This function will be implemented in 1.39 and not much is known about it, Some methods of evading it is diving, how ever most of the time the plane with Schrage Musik has worse weapons in the front such as a range of machine guns and cannons including 13.7mm, 20 and 23 mm, 30 mm, and 37mm's, You may rather fire your 4 x 7.7mm at the plane where it is easier to hit and focus on the large body and wings rather then getting 6 gunners on level with a plane with cannons that may rip your plane apart.

In 1.39 dev server we found a weakness, turning will throw the heavy fighters off a lot as it requires doing stuff awkwardly in WT to keep the guns on you,  As mentioned before, do not dive just to go level with it, the Do 217 for example has another set of 20 mms and then 4 machine guns, so you're only making it worse. 

Only plane in game visually with this is a Ki-45 variant and the Soon™™™™™™ to come new Do 217 variant, but  Me 410's, Bf 110's, Ju 88, Me 163, and other planes were known for having these types of weapons. Ranging from 12.7mm's to 20 and 30 mm's. Often in pairs, 2 and 4 guns being the normal. They can be configured to be at certain angles and such. Some can be adjustable in mid flight, while some aircraft have multiple weapons at different angles. How it will be is unknown to war thunder.
[spoiler] schrage_musik_jp.jpgschrage_musik_luftwaffe.jpgimages go to respective owners. [/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The lancaster, lacking the Belly gunner early lancaster have (meanwhile the Lancaster in war thunder still has the early upper-mid gunner) or an upgrade/ modification for that.  Will be weak to these attacks potentially, How ever all the mentioned aircraft besides the Me 410 or Me 163 can have it possibly in patch 1.39+ near the lancaster tier, unless more Bf 110 variants are released.  Even then, Me 410's are highly flammable and are easy; currently, to take down with a good aim before the night fighter aims,  And the Me 163 has no air breaks and low air resistance to slow down on a lancaster and fire from bellow, also will be heavier and the low fuel will be a problem for it, the Komet will most likely engage you with the regular weapons rather then the Musik.


Enemy Threat List:
(tier III, IV and V)

________________________________________________

Key:              
                            
Green =      no threat                 
Lime =       low threat                    
Yellow =     medium threat
Orange =    high threat
Red =        good game

Underline = Premium 
Streaks    = Engaged me less then 10 times/ never
*             = Rare

_______________________________________________

Note: if you have issues seeing the bright coloured key aircraft, highlight it with your mouse.

Germany

[spoiler]
Tier 3

SM 79.B*

Bf 109 F-4

Bf 109 F-4/ Tropical
Bf 109 G2/ Tropical


Fw 190 A-5
Fw 190 A-5/U-2

Do 217 N-1 *
Me 410 A-1
Me 410 A-1/U-2

Me 410 A-1/U-4
Me 410 B-1
Me 410 B-1/U-2

Me 410 B-2/U-4

Ju 87 G-1 *
Ju 87 G-2 *

Hs 129 B-2 *
Hs 129 B-3 *

He 111 H-16 *
Do 217 E-2 *
Do 217 E-4 *


P-47D 
La-5FN *



Tier 4

Bf 109 G-6
Bf 109 G-10
Bf 109 K4

Fw 190 A-8
Fw 190 F-8
Fw 190 D-9
Fw 190 D-12

Fw 190 D-13
Ta 152 H-1

Me 410 B-6/R3 *

Do 217 K-1 *
Do 217 M-1 *

 
Tier 5

Me 163 B *
He 162  A-2
Me 262 A-1a
Me 262 A-1c
Ar-234 *

F-86
MiG-15bis
[/spoiler]
Russia
[spoiler]
Tier 3

Yak-9T/K *
Yak-3 
Yak-3P


I-185 (M-82)

La-5F
La-5FN

Pe-3
Pe-3bis
IL-2M

Pe-2-1
Pe-2-21
Pe-2-83

Yer-2 M-105 *
Yer-2 M-10R UL *
Yer-2 ACh-30B/E *
Yer-2 ACh-30B/L *
Tu-2 *

B-25J-30
P-63A-5



Tier 4

Yak-9U *
Yak-9P *

Yak-9UT *

La-7
La-7B-20

La-9

IL-10 *

Pe-2-110
Pe-2-359

Tu-2S
Tu-2S-44

Tu-2S-59 *

Fw 190 D-9 *

Spitfire mk IX

Tier 5

Yak-15  * (Same battle rating as Lanc in RB)
Yak-15P * 
 (Same battle rating as Lanc in RB)
Yak-17 *
La-15
La-174
MiG-9 *
MiG-9/Late *
MiG-15 *
MiG-15Bis *


[/spoiler]
Japan
[spoiler]
Tier 3

A6M3
A6M3 mod 22
A6M3 mod 22/ko


Ki-61-l hei
Ki-85 ko

Ki-102 otsu *
Ki-96 *

B7A2

Ki-49 llb
Ki-49 llb/Late


Fw 190A-5




Tier 4

A6M5
A6M5 ostu
A6M5 ko

N1K-J
N1K-Ja


Ki-84 ostu
Ki-84 hei


G5N1 *
G8N1 *


Tier 5

Ki-200 *
F-86
[/spoiler]
United States of America
[spoiler]
Tier 3

P-47D-25  ^
P-47D-28 ^

P-63A-5 *
P-63A-10
P-63C-5 *


F4U-1d *
F4U-1c

B-25J-20
B-17E
B-17E/Late


XP-50
BTD-1
Bf 109F-4
X5F5*

 

Tier 4

P-51D-5
P-51D-30

P-51D-20 NA *

F8F-1
F8F-1B

B-17G
B-24D *


Spitfire mk IX
A-26*


Tier 5

P-80A
F-80C
F-84
F-86 A-5
F-86 F-25 *
F-86 F-2 *

F9F-2 *

F9F-5 *
[/spoiler]
Keep this in mind that there may be a bigger difference between colours then you expected. This is judging a plane with no rockets equiped and with an 'average' skill level of encounter.

A few reasons why some things are that colour.

 

  • Multiple engine aircraft are usually more sturdier then single engine aircraft and taking out 1 engine doesn't mean death for them
  • Some aircraft may have big guns, but that doesn't automatically land it a warmer colour,  Some of those guns are inaccurate and/or do not do to much damage. 
  • The Lancaster is faster then those planes
  • The enemy aircraft got little to no weapons to effectively attack you
  • Me 163 was designed to specifically kill you and it will. It was also designed for flying fortresses but it was specificly night time heavy bombers near the end war AKA Lancaster. Ki-200 has a similar story.
  • Most single engine aircraft can loose there engine really quickly to a Lancaster.
  • The planes are really flammable
  • The german jets can't climb to well over 3000 meters, the reason the He 163 and Me 262 is low is because a lancaster can shoot one down easily and they have issues climbing above your spawn point
  • Some Planes are to uncommon, rare, or not enough encounters to know how a fight would go. plane plane * plane *

Ar-234 can't die from your turret or easily (from what I saw) and they can ram you without having damage on them self, Sometimes they can get the kill if they luckily set you on fire, either way, it's bad news. Rat him out if you see an Ar 234 near you. Your team will be full of happiness to discover it's existence.

Remember, some people perform better at certain planes and will be a threat to you.
OR you are new to a lancaster and you can not defend yourself properly against the enemy. 
Keep in mind it doesn't hurt to tell your team that you need cover and do not be angry at someone who 'kill steal' you, Due to how in game classification effects rewards, you, a 'heavy bomber', would get less money then a 'fighter' or 'heavy fighter'. So it isn't like you lost anything important and he needs it more then you do.
 

Threat Evaluation:
Keep in mind that this is the threats to the Lancaster and so this may vary then an opinion on a "Spitfire vs Bf 109" for example. My Threat Evaluation is judged on...
 

  • Number of engines the plane has and the power of those engines.
  • Number of guns and firepower of the plane
  • Location of guns (nose, wing, pod, etc)
  • Performance
  • Speed and/or Boom and Zoom capabilities. (fast moving target is harder to hit with gunners)
  • Ability for teammates to neutralize the enemy target.
  • Flammability and Explosiveness of a plane
  • Self Sealing fuel tanks
  • Protective vests, thicker cockpit glass, and other protection upgrades.
  • Climb rate.
  • Air spawn
  • Armour and durability.
Edited by Lunatic242
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What bombs for what job?

High altitude bombing: 2 x 500 lb or 1 x 1000 lb. 
Best payload option: 14 x 500 lb or 6 x 1000 lb and 3 x 250 lb,
(for pillbox and light pillbox. the 2 x 500 lb for light pillbox is just due to A) bomb area of damage is nerfed B) Armoured target resistance to bombs. Harder to kill thinks with a near miss, 2 bombs will make it less likely to miss, 1 slightly before and one right after.)

Low Altitude bombing: 1 x 500 lb

Best payload option: 14 x 500 lb
(2 x 500 lb can kill pillbox, 1 x 500 lb can kill nearly anything else. with accuracy)

Skim Bombing:  1 x 500 lb
Best Payload option: 14 x 500 lb
(heavier bombs have less range and require more speed for the dive which can possibly end badly)

Naval Bombing: 1 x 500 lb+
Best Payload Option: 14 x 500 lb,  3 x 250 lb and 5 x 1000lb or 2 x 4000 lb
(strongly depends on target, destroyer = 1 x 500 lb, carrier = 2 x 4000 lb, big difference.)

Strategic Bombing: 1 x 4000 lb
Best Payload option: 2 x 4000 lb
(highest damage for weight to ground target in game, can 1 bomb kill strategic target bases and deal good damage to carriers and airfields)

use this as a guide line / template of what to do,  Do what you feel gives the best result for which bombs you use for what, and also use common sense on specific ground targets that do require less or more bombs, and keep in mind the situation you are in and if it is a good choice or not.


Glossary, Convert, & Help:

distance convert: http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm
speed converter: http://www.onlineconversion.com/speed_common.htm


weapons:
7.7mm = .303 cal 

12.7mm = .50 cal

250 lbs = 100 kg (WT equivalent)
500 lbs = 250 kg (WT equivalent)
1000 lbs = 500 kg (WT equivalent)

Turret Locations:
[spoiler] 9rkFXbq.jpg [/spoiler]
Simple Small Glossary:
[spoiler]
Bomber: An aircraft designed to carry and drop explosives.
Evasive maneuvers: moving in a way to avoid fire from enemy aircraft or projectiles.
Gunner: A person part of the bombers crew who mans the turret/ gun/ mount. 
Gunning: sometimes known as "manning the gunner" or "turret", in war thunder this reffers to the player taking control of the gunner position and opening fire on enemy aircraft instead of the AI.
Heavy Bomber: Heavy bombers are bomber aircraft with the greatest bomb load carrying capacity and longest range of their era. Often featuring 4 engines. (exception to Do 217) 
Interceptor:  Someone who o
bstructs (someone or something) so as to prevent them from continuing to a destination.
Overspeeding: That is travelling at an excessive speed, in WT this will cause issues like tail and wing snapping.
Rammer: in WT this name is given to describe the behavior or a person who wants to, or has rammed you. 
WEP:  Wartime Emergency Power is a term for a throttle setting on some WWII military aircraft engines. For use in emergency situations, it produced more than 100% of the engine's normal rated power for a limited amount of time
[/spoiler]
Classes of bombers:
[spoiler]
Light Bomber: 1-2 engine aircraft, often carrying small payloads.
Medium Bomber: 1-3 engine aircraft, carrying medium to large payloads.
Heavy Bomber: 4 engine aircraft, carrying the largest payloads of there era.
Dive bomber: A bomber designed to dive on an enemy target and drops it bombs, often equipped with external bombs and dive flaps (combat), may have air breaks and fixed guns.
Attacker: A plane with fixed guns to attack ground troops and craft, can have rockets and bombs as well.
Fighter-Bomber: A fighter or heavy equipped with dive bombs, sometimes with a functional bomb bay.

Night Time Bomber: A bomber specialized to operate at night. This includes paint camouflage. RADAR, and lack of defenses and/or Armour in return for the RADAR and extra equipment and higher payloads. 
Day Time Bomber: A bomber that operates at day. This includes heavy armour and defenses occasionally. Sometimes more simple and unspecialised.

Strategic Bomber:  is a mid-to-long range heavy bomber aircraft designed to drop large amounts of ordnance onto a distant target for the purposes of debilitating the enemy's capacity to wage war eg Cities and factories.
Tactical Bomber: is the aerial bombing aimed at targets of immediate 
military value, such as combatantsmilitary installations, or equipment

[/spoiler]
Gunning:
Controlling gunners is a bit difficult,  It involves looking at your tracers a lot and adjusting. 

When an enemy is not directly behind you, try aiming in front of his direction and keep an eye on your tracers and the hit marker flashing.
If you are up against a single engine fighter aim for the 1 engine they have if they are behind you. Remember your 6 x 7.7mm's can and are devastating if you use them right.
When leading the shots, keep in mind it is different then leading a shot for a fixed gun, you need a lot of ajusting and you need to wait for your gunners to turn, do not waist ammo firing when nothing is aiming in that direction yet. Do not hold down the fire button for to long or you will jam your guns.

Few crew upgrades you should invest in.

  • Weapon Maintenance
  • Reload Speed
  • Gunner vitality.

​The other gunner upgrades is restricted to the AI gunner from what most people believe so it is not that important, how ever it is useful.

If the enemy is to far away then tap fire (do not hold down the button, just press and let go every few seconds or so) to limit your gun heat and ammo consumption.
Use this to also find where you should aim if you can't hit him.

Gunners is really hard to explain perfectly how to use as it is situation and hard to describe. But it often ends up with a lot of leading your shots and adjusting as only practice will make it easier for you to respond and time to learn and gain experience not only with getting achievements tied with gunner kills and in game accolades for on hand, savior, bullet proof, fighter.
and to train your gun crew even more but it also boils down to YOUR personal experience and the more you practice the more you will get better as time goes. 

Personally I use incendiary ammo rack just to have a high chance of setting enemies on fire. How ever you may wish to use armoured targets because certain enemy aircraft got to think armour for your incendiaries to effect besides viable areas. with AP rack you may try to aim for the cockpit just so you can kill there pilot.  This works best for heavier aircraft on you as killing the engine doesn't do enough. 

Similar to adjusting your shots, try using the keyboard controls Q,W,E,A,S,D, to move and evade enemy fire and ramming or the initial attack. It does involve practice, but it does help.
Be careful of diving to fast in this, often in gunner view the plane will go back to the position and direction you were flying before you moved.

 

Quick tips/ recap:

Lancaster is agile
Gunners not useless
use keyboard to move when gunning to evade
use keyboard to help bombing

Teamwork is best goodwork.
Single engine fighters are weak to your gunners, with some training.
Lancaster is still agile when fast. use to advantage.
high altitude is best altitude

Lancaster is far from finished, may change in future.

Soon™™™™(tm) things we want/ not in game yet.

Gaijin confirmed bigger bombs will be added someday, specificly near World War Mode is added or strategic targets answered durring a QnA, Strat targets are already in game so we may expect 8000 lbs bombs and such

Lancaster can have modifications on the gunners, switching things for 12.7mm's and such.

Lancaster is under performing in performance atm. specifically acceleration, thrust, and climb.

British bombs historicly had more explosive force then other nations bomb with bombs like the 4000lb bomb being 75% explosives compares to the 50% of other nations. 

More payload options, eg 14 x 1000 lbs,

Different skin and decals for it, eg "Phantom of the Ruhr".


Night time MM for night bombers and fighters.

New Engine sounds Better Engine Sounds?

____________________________________________________________

This guide does need some more polishing, but I did put a lot of hard work and effort in it, it took me just over 12 hours to make this and I hope to cover all the bases. 
If you got any suggestions please give me a comment bellow or a PM about it. This guide can also help you play as other heavy bombers and such, not just the lancaster, it's just certain segments and numbers do not match up, for instance, you can not use the gunners on the Do 217 or B5N1 the same way you use the gunners on the lancaster, or B-17 and G8N1 the same way as the lancaster. 

I put a lot of hard work and effort into this and please +1 if you like it and tell me if it helped or not!  :yes: ... and yes, I realized the post is huge... posts... R.I.P. Cellphone users....

Edited by Lunatic242
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Damn. Someone put a little effort on this. Nice job.

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So much effort put into this! take all my +1's :)

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Well developed post and I'm sire will help a lot of players make up their mind on this monster.

 

Just thought I'd mention some things about it you may have mentioned I missed in my perusal.

 

Turrets. Early lancasters I believe had a belly turret the plane in game does not. It was found inefficient in its firpose so was removed to improve the bomb bay.  What I didn't know until rescently the brits developed a radar targeting system for its turrets meaning it had exceptional accuracy at day and night. This is a feature currently not in game.

 

The lack of a belly gun leaves me to handle this plane in a unique way. When an enemy fighter climbs from beneath me I bank my plane bringing my turrets into play as well as reducing my target area.  Once I have survived the pass o do what I can to keep the enemy behind and above me. Shallow dive is the best way to achieve this pitching up occasionally to get all my guns firing .

 

British bombs historicly had more explosive force then other nations bomb with bombs like the 4000lb bomb being 75% explosives compares to the 50% of other nations.  This is a factor currently not well shown in game but hopefully will at a later point. 2 egsamples of this is the general priciple the cookie bomb could destroy an entire city block alone. Another saw a cookie land in the general vicinity of a steam locamotive. The concussive force through the train hundred of metres (from memory).

 

This plane can be very good at what it is designed to do, destroy bases. It currently performs considerably below par but reguardless you can make money and xp with this plane and when complete will be unrivaled in its abilities to destroy!

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It's real disadvantage is it's lack of a belly gun, with 20-30mm "Slanted Music" weapons coming next patch, it will be hard times ahead.

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-snip-

I was going to add some things like that into my original post but I thought it would make it to big... then after I posted what I had I discovered I need a lot more of snipping to make it anywhere away from a wall of text xD

I didn't know about the explosive stuff though. I think I may add that in later when I have an idea where.

 

 

It's real disadvantage is it's lack of a belly gun, with 20-30mm "Slanted Music" weapons coming next patch, it will be hard times ahead.

I remember this but I will leave it to post 1.39 to talk about it...

But isn't there only 1 plane in game with Musik? or are they gonna add a Bf 110 variant with it.

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Forgot to do something ultra important.

 

PINNED FOR USEFULNESS    :yes:

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I was going to add some things like that into my original post but I thought it would make it to big... then after I posted what I had I discovered I need a lot more of snipping to make it anywhere away from a wall of text xD

I didn't know about the explosive stuff though. I think I may add that in later when I have an idea where.

 

 

I remember this but I will leave it to post 1.39 to talk about it...

But isn't there only 1 plane in game with Musik? or are they gonna add a Bf 110 variant with it.

I think there is one or 2 German and at least 1 japanes just off the top of my head.  The German comet also had a modification with vertical firing guns.

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I think there is one or 2 German and at least 1 japanes just off the top of my head.  The German comet also had a modification with vertical firing guns.

Yeah.

 

I also think all Me410 had the ability to mount them, the real killer will be the not introduced He217 (4x 30mm cannon as "Slanted Music" and 2x 30mm Mk-103 AND more 20mm cannon for frontal armament").

 

Something I would like to mention, why are the Fw190 "Medium threat"? I can understand if the A-5 is a Medium threat, but A-5/ U-2 got those gunpods which makes it the most heavily armed fighter in-game right now.... (6x 20mm).

 

A-8 is also high threat (Quad 20mm) and F-8 with 30mm Gunpods is simply a Me410 in a different skin.....

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Yeah.

 

I also think all Me410 had the ability to mount them, the real killer will be the not introduced He217 (4x 30mm cannon as "Slanted Music" and 2x 30mm Mk-103 AND more 20mm cannon for frontal armament").

 

Something I would like to mention, why are the Fw190 "Medium threat"? I can understand if the A-5 is a Medium threat, but A-5/ U-2 got those gunpods which makes it the most heavily armed fighter in-game right now.... (6x 20mm).

 

A-8 is also high threat (Quad 20mm) and F-8 with 30mm Gunpods is simply a Me410 in a different skin.....

it is mentioned in some of my bullet points bellow

 

 

 

  • Most single engine aircraft can loose there engine really quickly to a Lancaster.
  • The planes are really flammable

I often shoot enemy Fw 190's and Bf 109's on my tail with such ease and success at times that I often got more air kills then all my teams kills together, including there ai kills. (one game being 9 air kills in RB, the day I decided to tell people on lancaster thread that gunners are not useless on lancaster).

Also German engines in most planes got 'realistic over heating' meaning there engine is more sensitive to damage as it over heats faster (as it is typically already on the verge of over heating).

I do recognize that Fw 190's got mean cannons, But it does boil down to pilot skill. For example if a Fw 190 doesn't stay near my tail area  or do slightly slack moves to engage me.
Some choose to attack from bellow in my blind spot and avoid my tail gunner or to BnZ me instead as a fast moving target is harder to hit.

Picture the  "medium threat" as a 50/50 chance of winning point. 
Red is 0/100 chance of winning, while Green is the opposite. 


Trust me, After you see dozens of F8F's, N1K's, And enemy multi engine aircraft like B-25',s B-17's, Ki-102's, Do 217's, etc. you quickly learn that most other single engine planes are easier to kill then say a B-17 on your tail. 
This is from a 7.7mm turrets bomber perspective, The Bf 109's and Fw 190's are a nightmare for me to combat when I am in say, a Tempest or a spitfire. 

Also if the Bf 109 has gunpods added, the Lancaster can easily out turn it and avoid being fired at.  It all boils down to who's the ace and who's the rookie.

Also do not think that I think german props are easy to kill in a lancaster to the point my lancy is seal clubbing them, Sure, there was this one game where i wasn't interested in bombing at all and purposely when fighting every German prop I saw,  (bad mistake, a Hs 129 crippled our ground defenses and germany won after the duck went hiding when it turned duck hunting season). But as you know with  war thunders randomness, it could be he who has his plane engluffed in flames after a burst of my machine guns.
OR it could be me with a dead pilot after a crisp AP cannon went through my plane.


You did make me aware of the F-8 though, and I will bring it a bit higher in threat level. If you are wondering why most Me 410's are down low is the fact it's more flammable then the japanese and the lancaster can out turn it with ease, so it's at a disadvantage. 
I will change the F-8 to a higher status and also will add some evaluation terms on the same segment bellow to give people an insight on what I rank planes by (performance, speed, firepower, effectiveness, ammo count and ammo efficiency, number of engines, Flammability, Explosiveness, and how well a friendly fighter team mate can neutralize the threat., that sort of things). 

Edit: fixed, also added A-26 and X5F5 to the list.

Edit 2:

Forgot to mention stuff about naval bombing, tank bombing, carrier bombing, etc, I will add those up tomorrow (or your today) when I wake up, g2g to sleep now.

Edited by Lunatic242
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Very good guide. Will apply.

 

PS: Why put this in tactical?

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PS: Why put this in tactical?

That's where all the other guides for RAF aircraft are put and I asked around for a couple of days to where should I put it and I gathered that this is the best place while academy is more of a entry level kind of stuff.

Edit: also it seems like tactical is 100% guides from what I can see on the first page.  If this is in the wrong area then hopefully a moderator can move the thread to the proper area.

Edited by Lunatic242
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Ah then the word "Tactical" doesn't refer to "Tactical aircraft" but "Tactical section". Maybe this should be renamed to "Tactics" then? Makes sense... (I guess). Still a Great guide

 

:Ps :salute:

Edited by piritskenyer
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Updated.

Added a brief guide on how to bomb tanks and what makes the lancaster better at it then other bombers and also how to bomb naval targets, specifically low altitude bombing, and also how to perform skip bombing. 

Also slightly updated the enemy threat list to some tests I've down in the weekend, increasing the threat of the Ta 152 reasonably higher and Fw 190 D-12 and 13 slightly.
And a brief guide on what you will in counter when Schrage Musik is added in 1.39 and a bit about the aircraft it was used on, what it does, and how will it be a threat to the lancaster. 

All added on the 2nd post, top. 

I am thinking on making a guide for the Swordfish, seeing how most people do not see the gloriousness... ness of the Swordfish and how "OP" it is!

Edited by Lunatic242
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awesome guide, one problem.  It seems whenever I kill a planes engine and they go down, they crash and no one even gets an assist.  lost several kills through this. 

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This is a common problem when peoples engines die,  If they are still near you when there engine dies or dying, keep shooting at them.

Keep in mind that your not specifically trying to get kills for credits, just for self defense and helping the team, how ever the reason I say "aim for the engine" is for the following reasons

1) the pilot is also near the engine, you got a chance for pilot knock out
2) if your gun spreads or you miss the engine, it'll hit the engines.
3) fuel tanks on most enemy planes you'll fight against are in the body and not the wings, So higher chance of fire due to engine fire OR fuel fire.
4) similar to number 2, if you hit there wings and they got fuel in the wings, fire. 

Also it's a larger target then wings most time. I personally use the AP-I rounds and often get them by fire, Fire damage makes it hard for it not to be a kill if he goes down, regardless of engine or someone tying to kill steal.

Hope that answers your question ^-^

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Mate, awesome effort, you have covered some great stuff in here but you are missing one of the key defensive measures introduced by British heavy bomber crews in WWII - Corkscrewing = http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_corkscrew.htm

 

Performing this you can last a hell of a lot longer and take out more enemy aircraft with decent gunners, it can't be done with mouse alone, must be either keyboard or joystick. When you get the moves down pat you can pull it off while in gunner view, then it's awesome. The one main point is that it has be performed violently, no slight pull ups or dives, it has to be done with intent to throw off the enemy's aim and to provide 2-3 gunners on the target at one time most of the time.

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Mate, awesome effort, you have covered some great stuff in here but you are missing one of the key defensive measures introduced by British heavy bomber crews in WWII - Corkscrewing = http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_corkscrew.htm

 

Performing this you can last a hell of a lot longer and take out more enemy aircraft with decent gunners, it can't be done with mouse alone, must be either keyboard or joystick. When you get the moves down pat you can pull it off while in gunner view, then it's awesome. The one main point is that it has be performed violently, no slight pull ups or dives, it has to be done with intent to throw off the enemy's aim and to provide 2-3 gunners on the target at one time most of the time.

Thank you, I will try and fit it in somewhere, but I reached max character limit on 1 or 2 of the posts I made and things are getting rather cluttered sadly. When I first made this thread I thought 3 posts was more then enough, guess I was wrong.


While I am thinking of it, I will instead simply link it to your post here directly, you explained it quite well and have a supporting link with a diagram and such.
Cheers. 

I am thinking of making another very in depth tutorial on one of the following planes.
Swordfish
Wellington
Hurricane
Mosquito
Beaufighter.

Which one do you think I should do next?

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Thank you, I will try and fit it in somewhere, but I reached max character limit on 1 or 2 of the posts I made and things are getting rather cluttered sadly. When I first made this thread I thought 3 posts was more then enough, guess I was wrong.


While I am thinking of it, I will instead simply link it to your post here directly, you explained it quite well and have a supporting link with a diagram and such.
Cheers. 

I am thinking of making another very in depth tutorial on one of the following planes.
Swordfish
Wellington
Hurricane
Mosquito
Beaufighter.

Which one do you think I should do next?

the one without the 57mm, the one with the actual bombload. 

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the one without the 57mm, the one with the actual bombload. 

Alright, but it'll be quite tricky if you want me to teach you how to use the bombs, because atm I only skip bomb with it. Bombs atm are quite under whelming for the users if it's smaller then 1000 lb and these are a pair of 500 lb's with no bomb aim.

I can try and practise and see what works best for me, I can use my old method for dive bombing before I learned. (fly very very low, drop bomb just when you are a few 0.1 km's away and then fly away while the bombs on a timed fuse go off later, safely)

How ever I will do both planes at the same time as both are roughly the same. 
 

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