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de Havilland Mosquito FB Mk VI


ElBarca
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hj679-dh-level.jpg

 

 

This graph is showing a Mosquito hitting 384 mph with external wing tanks.

 

Also will the Mosquito get a BR to reflect it's performance? it's got a very high BR for a 1942/43 aircraft, if not it should at least be getting 150 Octane fuel upgrade available (+25 lbs boost).

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No idea, seems too low though.

 

This here http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/mosquito-performance-aussie.pdf also has a max speed of 379 mph for Merlin 25 Mk VI at +18 lbs boost.

 

These figures are too slow.

 

You seem to be using HJ679 from the Boscombe Down tests (September 1943) which are then corrected in the Hatfield tests also September 1943 for the same aircraft. 

 

6YUtOVO.png

 

Basically they state HJ679 is not representative of a the proper condition of the aircraft. This is again repeated in this test -

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/hx809.pdf

 

 

 

 Comparison of results @ +18 lb/sq.in. boost with those of Mosquito VI HJ.679, indicate that the speed of that aircraft is of the order of 10-15 mph below average, thus supporting the conclusion made in the 7th part of report No. A. & A.E.E./767,e, that HJ.679 was not fully representative of the type

 

The actual speeds in the Hatfield tests are listed in the graph in my first post, 384 mph at 12,000 feet and 370 mph at 5,000 ft.

 

Also its too heavy for a Mosquito, at 20,500 lbs in your data sheet according to this http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/Mosquito-VI-tactical.pdf that is equivalent to overload weight with 516 gallons of fuel and 2 x 250 lb bombs on the wings.

 

nrZrY1z.png

 

A 'clean' Mosquito with no bombs, wing racks, extra fuel should only weigh about 19,100 lbs and that is with it's full 408 gallon internal fuel.

 

As you can see from the Long Range Fighter (ii) (19,941 lbs) to the Overload Long Range fighter  (iii) (20,611 lbs) the additional wing tanks with 80 gallons of fuel add 670 lbs alone to the weight.  

 

Therefore extra 100 gallons in the bomb bay will add at least 700 lbs to the weight.  

 

That same above report (Tactical trials) also states that it was capable of 380 mph at 17,000 ft with Merlin 23s, that have 220 HP less. 

 

u102urD.png

 

 
I also find those ROC figures dubious and again I think they reflect overload weights. In the Tactical Trials it states 
 
0qfAOaU.png
 
3800 ft/min (this is in the supplemental section with the Merlin 25s) that is 19 m/s at low levels. It also says in the same section that the Merlin 25 Mosquito is faster than a Spitfire Mk XII at low levels and can accelerate away from it.
 
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/dp845.html Spitfire Mk XII does 345 mph at sea level here, by your data sheet the Mosquito would be 10 mph slower, yet the tactical trials says its slightly faster. 
 
 

Whatever Mosquito you are modelling it seems to heavy and too slow to me. 380 mph should be around it's top speed. 345 - 350 sea level 

 

EDIT: Forgot to add in the tactical trials it mentions the dive speed up to 450 mph, this is again listed in the manual. The current in game version red lines way before 450 mph indicated. Can this also be looked at when the Flight Model is updated, it shouldn't red line until after it passes it's manual stated VNE. 

Edited by tajj
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To further add to this I checked my book at home "Aircraft of the Royal Air Force Since 1918" and it also has a top speed of 380 mph for Mosquito at 17,000 ft. 

 

It also has a lower time to climb than that as well.

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Quite hilarious that a plane whose main attribute was speed in this game is depicted as a slow great turnfighter. :P

 

that plane's main attribute was speed at late 41 though 42. in game it's fighting 44 planes.

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that plane's main attribute was speed at late 41 though 42. in game it's fighting 44 planes.

Well, it's got rockets which iirc didn't get till D-Day, so it makes sense. But I'd MORE than gladly loose the rockets,get a non UFO turn, correct FM Mossie at an earlier Tier.

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Well, it's got rockets which iirc didn't get till D-Day, so it makes sense. But I'd MORE than gladly loose the rockets,get a non UFO turn, correct FM Mossie at an earlier Tier.

 

Should tier things on performance not weapons.

 

There were better and faster Mosquitos by 1944 than the FB MK VI like the B Mk XVI which could do around 410 mph with 4,000 lbs worth of bombs and wing tanks. 

 

The role it was being used for which was low level intruder it still performed pretty well in 1944, but it doesn't have the luxury of thousands of square miles of air space to work in, it was fast enough even in 1944 that it would have delivered it's load and left before the intercepting fighters had got in the air.

 

You simply don't get that opportunity in game, so they need to be in situations where they can just about out run things they face as that was the whole premise of the plane.

 

In 1942 it was faster than a 109s and about the same speed as 190s down low.

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  • 1 month later...

I know I'm posting without an hard data, but at the moment in 1.39, the standard Mosquito has a climb rate virtually identical to the Wellington and significantly worse than the Bristol Beaufighter. The Mosquito has several hundred horsepower more than the Beaufighter, weighs several TONNES less and is an incredibly aerodynamically efficient aircraft, so to barely be able to outclimb an underpowered bomber and to be nowhere near the performance of the "inferior" Beaufighter is completely out of order.

The Beaufighter MKX had 2x Bristol Hercules engines, which gave it a total of around 2700BHP, the Mosquito MKXVI (which is the bomber variant) has 2x Rolls Royce Merlin engines, which gave it a total of around 3500BHP. The quoted climb rates (from wikipedia-not great but it's all I have at the moment) for the Beau' MKX and Mossie are 8.2m/s and 14.5m/s respectively. So the fact that in game the Mossie has an standard climb rate of 5.7m/s shows how badly broken its FM is at the moment. Interestingly the Beau' has a fully upgraded climb rate of 19.8m/s, which is double what it should be.

 

A positive note is that, in game, the Mossie is certainly a quick aircraft, even unmodified, which seems to tally with information about it, its just the current state of its climb/turn rate that seems to need some work.

Sorry for making it a comparison between two aircraft, but I thought it was the best way to show has bad the current Mossie FM is, which is putting it at a major disadvantage compared to its contempories, and makes it vastly inferior to the Beaufighter, which is meant to be a lower tier aircraft.

Edited by Gryphus74004
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^ it's because they have used a very bad data sheet for this plane.

 

Climb rate, acceleration, handling, speed are all off.

 

The Mosquito should be quite a dangerous beast especially on low fuel loads. In game they have just basically turned it into a fat whale of a bomber.

 

Plus it's over tiered. Should be facing other 1942/43 planes like Bf 109G2s.

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^ it's because they have used a very bad data sheet for this plane.

 

Climb rate, acceleration, handling, speed are all off.

 

The Mosquito should be quite a dangerous beast especially on low fuel loads. In game they have just basically turned it into a fat whale of a bomber.

 

Plus it's over tiered. Should be facing other 1942/43 planes like Bf 109G2s.

"Bad data sheet", more like "no data sheet", even the worst data sheet would be more accurate than the current setup.

 

I would be more than happy to fly it against other T4 aircraft, if it performed properly. At the moment thanks to the MM my poor old T2/3 Beaus and Typhoons are going against T4's.

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Well at least they have unlocked the thread.

 

It is bad rather than no because that test existed it was just a very bad example of the aircraft, when you add in that they seem to have modelled it on the overload fighters as well that is where you are getting the sluggish performance.

 

It's all above.

 

I can;t get data on exactly how the plane should handle but I know it should be capable of 380 mph at optimum altitude and 3800 ft/min at sea level climb with full fuel load. 

 

Then we have the dive speed and the acceleration as well. All in all the in game Mosquito seems to be a whale of plane to what it should be. 

 

I'm just really hoping the Mosquito FM isn't finished. 

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what they should do is find a data sheet on the mosquito F mkII (because the FB Mk6 is based off it and overall shape didn't change) and modify it from there. it would probably produce a better FM than what they currently have.

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There are several FB Mk VI tests, at least 3 I could find they are all on WW2aircraft performance. There is also a full set of tactical trials which a lot of planes don;t have so there is plenty of data.

 

The datasheet they have used is just poorly researched. 

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I know I'm posting without an hard data, but at the moment in 1.39, the standard Mosquito has a climb rate virtually identical to the Wellington and significantly worse than the Bristol Beaufighter. The Mosquito has several hundred horsepower more than the Beaufighter, weighs several TONNES less an incredibly aerodynamically efficient aircraft, so to barely be able to outclimb an underpowered bomber and to be nowhere near the performance of the "inferior" Beaufighter is completely out of order.
The Beaufighter MKX had 2x Bristol Hercules engines, which gave it a total of around 2700BHP, the Mosquito MKXVI (which is the bomber variant) has 2x Rolls Royce Merlin engines, which gave it a total of around 3500BHP. The quoted climb rates (from wikipedia-not great but it's all I have at the moment) for the Beau' MKX and Mossie are 8.2m/s and 14.5m/s respectively. So the fact that in game the Mossie has an standard climb rate of 5.7m/s shows how badly broken its FM is at the moment. Interestingly the Beau' has a fully upgraded climb rate of 19.8m/s, which is double what it should be.
 
A positive note is that, in game, the Mossie is certainly a quick aircraft, even unmodified, which seems to tally with information about it, its just the current state of its climb/turn rate that seems to need some work.
Sorry for making it a comparison between two aircraft, but I thought it was the best way to show has bad the current Mossie FM is, which is putting it at a major disadvantage compared to its contempories, and makes it vastly inferior to the Beaufighter, which is meant to be a lower tier aircraft.

Excuse me? Fully upgraded my mosquito has a 26m//s climb rate. Wellington beating that? No, I don't think so.
The only things gajin needs to fix is the speed, and the turn time, increase, decrees likewise.
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Excuse me? Fully upgraded my mosquito has a 26m//s climb rate. Wellington beating that? No, I don't think so.
The only things gajin needs to fix is the speed, and the turn time, increase, decrees likewise.

Stop reading stat cards please...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Excuse me? Fully upgraded my mosquito has a 26m//s climb rate. Wellington beating that? No, I don't think so.
The only things gajin needs to fix is the speed, and the turn time, increase, decrees likewise.

Sorry StratoCirrus, You misunderstood what I wrote, I said that a standard Mossie (according to the stat cards-which, now I am a bit wiser, know to take with a pinch of salt), unmodified, as you unlock it, has a lower rate of climb that a fully upgraded Wellington. Or used to a couple of patches back. I have noticed that some stat cards have changed recently, so its getting worked on.

 

The Mossie isn't a horrible plane it fly, it handles very nicely, its just not fast enough whe you think how much sheer power and torque it had in such a lightweight and aerodynamic airframe. Its engines are a touch fragile and its a bit flammable, but its wooden, so its expected.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Any scuttlebut about making the Mossie fly properly or otherwise lowering its tier to 3 (which would be chronologically correct, just ditch a Beaufighter and move up the Mossie). As it is, it handles exactly like a Wellington, just with a big front gun and without any gunners (though I like how two parachutes come out of it when shot)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

I would thank tajj for this very good and detailed post, i just point this sentence : "380 mph should be around it's top speed. 345 - 350 sea level".

In metric system it will be : 610km/h should be around it's top speed.  555 - 563 sea level.

 

Now i see why this plane was praise for it speed IRL...and only IRL

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