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*Harbinger2167 posted a topic in Naval DiscussionA discussion focused generally on the involvement of 'smaller' class warships. Smaller, faster, and with relatively shorter combat ranges than battleships/ battlecruisers. The definition of a ship: A large seagoing vessel typically built to travel across large distances at sea, considered larger than boats. Please note, this post is not focused on the involvement of Battleships specifically, though they are listed, there is already an official and extensive post for that topic and you can find it here: Post Captains: SeraphsWrath, *Harbinger2167 Fantastic we've reached more than 100 votes!!! I thank everyone who has, or soon will vote! I'd like to personally thank those who have, are, and will contribute to the post, I can't thank you all enough!!! This by no means indicates that we are finished collecting information and opinions, so please (as long as it isn't specifically about Battleships), feel free to contribute information and voice your opinion! You will be credited for information you provide. Please note that different countries set different classification standards for their ships, and that I am using general rules by a few countries on how they are classified. I am one person, and I make mistakes, so I implore you to point out those that i've made, or even add information to this post by commenting what you know. Aircraft Carriers (Least likely to be playable, Most likely to remain A.I.) Japanese Aircraft Carrier: Shinano Potential Tier: 1-5 What They Do: Aircraft Carriers were designed to be a mobile base/ airfield for both attackers and defenders. Pros: Player aircraft can launch and land on Carriers, Good Anti-Air in-game, Some Aircraft Carriers carried decent armament, Some capable of bombarding, Varying density of Anti-Air. Cons: Extremely susceptible to bombs, Extremely susceptible to torpedoes (the Shinano was sunk by 4 torpedoes from a single American Submarine),Gigantic target, Very susceptible to Warships, Very slow, Poor maneuverability, Requires an escort to survive. How They Can Work in War Thunder: In WT, Aircraft Carriers can act like long range artillery (similar to artillery in Ground Forces). If ever playable, Aircraft Carriers might launch A.I. aircraft (torpedo and dive bombers) to spotted targets as well as enemy aircraft, as well as sail to safe-ish places on the map so player controlled aircraft can land and repair. It would be difficult to balance Aircraft Carriers. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, Sekainoshihaisha Battleships (Very unlikely to be playable, not the focus of this post) Japanese Battleships: Musashi and Yamato Potential Tier: 4-5 What They Do: Battleships were designed to be incredibly well armed and armored, allowing them the capability to attack enemies ranging from Aircraft Carriers to Boats providing a deterrence to enemy ships and convoys. A Battleships purposes and performance are entirely dependent on what their country of origin needed for their fleet, making each one very unique. Battleships are devastating bombardment craft that can decimate shore lines, though they suffered in this role due to the immense ranges they needed to be effective, often requiring aircraft to drop phosphorous flares on targets to make them easier to fire upon. Pros: Very long distance firing range, Mediocre cruising speed, Casemate style allows for separate guns to be fired readily on either broadside, Very heavy armament (more or less than 360mm), Very high density of Anti-Air, Fantastic armor, Torpedo capable. Cons: Generally performs worse at closer ranges, Very poor to mediocre maneuverability, Slow, Long reload times, Extremely heavy weight, Enormous target, Extremely susceptible to torpedoes and bombs. How They Can Work in War Thunder: Battleships had lots of guns that were larger and more dense than Heavy Cruisers. Though, for the most part their characteristics are based on the country. U.S.= Fast, Long range, Well armored/ German= Fast/ Japan= Well armored, Well armed/ British= Very well armored, Moderate guns relative to other Battleships. It would be incredibly difficult to balance Battleships. Contributors: SeraphsWrath Battlecruisers (unlikely to be playable) Royal Navy Battlecruiser: HMS Hood Potential Tier: 4-5 What They Do: Battlecruisers were designed to be as close as possible to being a Battleship without being a Battleship (due to treaty restrictions). Had a similar armament to Battleships, but had less armor and a generally more narrow design. Due to their reduction in armor and new design, Battlecruisers were faster than their larger counterparts. Pros: Very long distance firing range, Typically moderate cruising speed, Casemate style, Very heavy armament (more or less than 360mm), Large density of Anti-Air, Great armor, Better speed/ maneuverability than battleships, Similar weapon density to Battleships, designed to hunt down and destroy larger/ slower ships with similar armament, Torpedo capable? Cons: Generally performs worse at closer ranges, Poor to mediocre maneuverability, Long reload times, Very heavy weight, Very big target, Very susceptible to torpedoes and bombs. How They Can Work in War Thunder: Battlecruisers (if added to WT) would be a destructive counter to Cruisers and other Battleships. Despite being faster and more lightly armored than their counterparts, Battlecruisers would act similarly to Battleships. It would be difficult to balance Battlecruisers. Contributors: SeraphsWrath Heavy Cruisers (unlikely to be playable) Japanese 'Heavy Cruiser': Mogami Class Potential Tier: 3-5 (or tier 4-5) What They Do: Heavy Cruisers excel at killing Destroyers and other Cruisers. They were designed to engage other Cruisers, Destroyers, while generally still being fast enough to attack convoys. Pros: Medium to long range advantage, Moderate to quick cruising speed, Center line turrets (all turrets can be fired from the same broadside), Heavy armament (less than or around 210mm), Large to medium density of Anti-Air, Some capable of launching torpedoes, Good armor. Cons: Worse at closer ranges, Poor to mediocre maneuverability, Long reload times, Heavy weight, More susceptible to torpedoes, Big target. How They Can Work in War Thunder: In WT, similar to Light Cruisers and Frigates, Heavy Cruisers are capable of playing a guardian role for smaller ships or less capable larger ships as adequate Anti-Air support. Heavy Cruisers will also be good at bombarding ground targets such as destroying gun emplacements, and other strategic targets. It would be difficult to balance Heavy Cruisers. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, CritticalError Light Cruisers (unlikely to be playable) Royal Navy Light Cruiser: Dido Class Potential Tier: 3-5 (late tier 2?) What They Do: Light Cruisers, similar to Heavy Cruisers, are good at taking out Destroyers and other Cruisers. Though their goal is to attack ships smaller than or at their size, Light Cruisers are more intended to lay down fire at a more sustained and consistent rate with overall more guns on target, while also being faster and less armored than their heavy counterpart. Light Cruisers are also made to bombard ground targets. Pros: Medium to Long range advantage, Fast cruising speed, Decent to good maneuverability, Casemate style gun layout allows you to turn and fire on different broadsides, Medium to heavy armament (less than or around 155mm), Medium to high density of Anti-Air, Mediocre to good armor. Cons: Focus on speed sacrifices more armor, Casemate style typically reduces guns on target, More than average reload times, susceptible to bombing/ torpedoes, Big target. How They Can Work in War Thunder: In WT, Light Cruisers could work as something that lays down consistent fire on a slow, large or damaged enemy, making it difficult to repair. Light Cruisers can also be a guardian to ships with poor Anti-Aircraft capabilities, some even solely designed to counter aircraft. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, MILESPARVUS Destroyers U.S. Navy Destroyer: Fletcher Class Potential Tier: 3-5 (late tier 2?) What They Do: Destroyers (initially called Torpedo Boat Destroyers) were designed to be fast and maneuverable with the intention of escorting more 'critical' convoys and vessels. They are intended to combat smaller, heavily armed ships, but due to the nature of having to escorting important Ships, Cargo, etc. Destroyers needed to be malleable in many it's tasks, a sort of Swill army knife, if all of the knives were usable at once. Pros: Short to medium firing range advantage, Very fast cruising speed, Good maneuverability, Central or Casemate?, Small to medium armament (less than or around 130mm), Medium density of Anti-Air, Many were capable of using torpedoes, Can play a scouting role. Cons: Less effective at longer distance than Cruisers, Mediocre armor, More susceptible to bombing, Medium target, Generally worse against larger targets. How They Can Work in War Thunder: Destroyers can be the middle ground between short and long ranges, making them the most multipurpose ships in war thunder. Destroyers would likely perform similar to medium tanks in ground forces, being competent at both dishing out shots as well as taking a few. They would probably be okay at everything, but the best at nothing other than perhaps being fantastic at medium ranges, just like medium tanks in ground forces. Contributors: Monitors (unlikely to be playable) Royal Navy Monitor: HMS Lord Clive Potential Tier: 1-5 (or 1-4) What They Do: Designed to be relatively mobile naval artillery cannons (in terms of being capable of traversing some rivers or getting close to shorelines). Monitors were used for bombardment and clearing enemy river fortifications and rarely (if ever) combated other ships. Pros: Medium to long range advantage, Very large guns for ship profile (it's essentially a destroyer-sized battleship), Coastal bombardment capabilities, Long combat range, Poor to decently armored, Has secondary armament, Small to medium size, some even capable of traversing rivers. Cons: Very Slow, Poor maneuverability, Mediocre AAA capabilities (although some had very large calibre AA guns), Low number of main battery turrets, Long reload. How They Can Work in War Thunder: Monitors can act as something similar to a tank destroyer in ground forces (with the speed of a Black Prince), they are limited in what they can work with. Similar to not having a rotating turret, Monitors will be great at one thing (like sniping), but be bad at most other things unless they are designed to counter specific enemy types like aircraft, etc. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, tizianenel Frigates Royal Navy Frigate: HMCS Loch Achanalt Potential Tier: 1-5 What They Do: Frigates were designed to counter Corvettes and PT boats, while escorting convoys from enemy Submarine and Destroyer attacks. Frigates were generally insufficiently-armed or armored to fight off Destroyers or larger classes, though they could pose a big threat in larger numbers. Frigates are essentially a really big PT boat, and their purpose varies depending upon their unit type. Pros: Short to medium range advantage, Some capable of laying mines, Some capable of mine sweeping, Some had an Anti-Aircraft role, Missiles, Good maneuverability, Small to medium target, Torpedo capable, Anti-Submarine, Can play a scouting role. Cons: Usually less firepower/ speed than destroyers, Limited range, Light to mediocre armament, Poor to mediocre armor. How They Can Work in War Thunder: In WT, Frigates wouldn't be limited to attacking Corvettes and PT boats, instead, their purpose would be based on their type, and their armament. For example, a frigate with good AAA would be a guardian to their team against aerial attacks in a defensive role, while those equipped with torpedoes could play a more offensive role, many were considered Destroyer Escorts. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, Keijo_Kalmakoura Auxiliary Cruisers German Auxiliary Cruiser: Atlantis Potential Tier: 1-3 (early tier 4?) What They Do: Auxiliary Cruisers were designed to combat trading Vessels or smaller Ships or Boats (typically re-purposed boats/ ships but some were warships), mostly used by German forces to disrupt trade routs and attack smaller ships/ boats. Pros: Short range advantage, Some built to look like merchant ships, Mediocre Anti-Aircraft density, Torpedo capable, Ability to launch floating aircraft (unlikely to be a mechanic), Good at taking out lightly armored vessels, Mediocre maneuverability, Can play a scouting role, Some were designed to be unguided missile platforms to bombard shores and fortifications. Cons: Limited range, Not designed to combat larger ships or ships with heavy armament, Slow to medium speed, Poor armor. How They Can Work in War Thunder: Auxiliary Cruisers can work to hunt down small enemy player or AI ships, they can also attack some larger craft with it's torpedoes. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, Mercedes4321 Corvettes Italian Corvette: Gabbiano Class Potential Tier: 1-5 What They Do: Corvettes tended to be designed to fight both PT boats and other Corvettes, they are also capable of laying minefields that are intended for enemy convoys, Some corvettes were designated submarine chasers. Pros: Short range advantage, Capable of mine sweeping as well as laying minefields, Small target, Mediocre to good maneuverability, Coastal waters, Rivers, Sub-Chasers, Torpedo capable, Multi-purpose, Anti-Air variants, Missiles, Multi-purpose, Can play a scouting role. Cons: Light to mediocre armament, Generally slower than frigates, Limited range. How They Can Work in War Thunder: In WT, Corvettes can work as low-tier brawlers and play a support role in higher tier battles. Due to the fact that they are torpedo and mine capable, they are capable of mounting attacks on larger warships, or prepare a trap by laying a defensive minefield. Corvettes are also capable of working in a potentially vital mine-clearance role, by dropping cables, reducing speed, and shooting the mines that pop-up to the surface. Contributors: SeraphsWrath, Mercedes4321 Submarines (least likely to be added to war thunder as A.I. let alone playable vehicles) German Submarine: U-Boat Potential Tier: 1-5 What They Do: Submarines were generally designed to go after isolated enemy ships of any size or function, whether it be a trading vessels or Aircraft Carriers. Submarines were also designed of course to remain underwater for short or long periods of time to become difficult to detect by enemy ships, planes, or land defenses. Pros: Difficult to detect, Torpedo capable, Small to medium target, Most equipped with a deck gun that can fire when at or relatively close to surface, Some capable of launching small aircraft, Some are missile capable (first cruise missiles in 1953), Many capable of laying mines. Cons: Other than torpedoes has generally light to mediocre armament, Light to mediocre armor, Has to rise for air eventually, Breach in hull might prevent further dives, Very susceptible to depth charges, Very susceptible to mines, Most tended to move at slow or mediocre speeds even if surfaced, poor to mediocre maneuverability. How They Can Work in War Thunder: Submarines can work similar to the Russian ASU series, being difficult to detect, limited in it's capabilities, and easily taken out if hit. Submarines can lay out mines as traps for convoys or larger enemy ships. For balance purposes, perhaps Submarines should have to surface every 2-3 minutes for 30 seconds to 1 minute? It would be difficult to balance Submarines. Contributors: Mercedes4321 Boats Naval Trawler: HMT Lancer Tier: 1-5 Pros: Wide range of speeds, Wide range of maneuverability, Wide range of weapons, Torpedoes, Missiles, Mines, Relatively very small targets, Capable of going closer to shore or traverse rivers, Submarine chasers, Trawlers, and Some landing craft re-purposed for use as missile stations. Cons: Tend to have (relatively) Very light armament (focusing on single weapon systems, or many weaker layouts), Tend to be short range. Already Announced to Work in War Thunder Contributors: Mercedes4321, KillerAce4