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About Time4Tea

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  1. True, solid shot could have possibly be worse IRL if the crews of the enemy tanks were brave enough to stay in the tank and if they built some sort of dead body ejector into the tank to speed up crew replacement . I do think that for inset_judgement to say that it was a bad decision to use solid shot because of how APHE performs in-game is a bit ludicrous though. Remove the spherical explosion and insane killing power, model proper spalling with more a potent spalling cone for APHE and we'll be closer to actual performance.
  2. I wasn't talking about HE use. I was talking about A.P.H.E use and using A.P instead of A.P.H.E wasn't a stupid decision just because A.P.H.E does better in a game made 70 years later. In fact I'd say it was a stupid decision for some other countries to sacrifice penetration for a bit of a more destructive post-penetration.
  3. Are we sure that Gaijin's data is correct though? I don't remember them providing any sources for their HESH adjustment. In any case, i agree that going by Gaijin's numbers the 20 Pounder would have lower HESH effectivness than the 90mm and wouldn't be too useful, it would be a bit more useful than APDS for side shots though with the greater Spall effect.
  4. I agree, earlier HESH would probably be of a different, less refined composition. The 20 Pounder being rifled in comparison with the 76mm on the Saladin might improve effectiveness as well.
  5. I found a document recently on the Alvis Saladin armoured car and it's low pressure 76mm gun. I heard about some sources listing the maximum effectiveness of this HESH round being as high as 90mm. I could see a 20 Pounder going through as least 100mm.
  6. Aircraft/Loadouts

    But its Canadian which means it would be a US premium right?
  7. Over match and APHE often kills the Crusader, its not as bouncy is it was on introduction. The Valentine is only good at its BR and below. The poor Matilda isn't even safe from the 50mm Panzer III's due to APCR and it's flat mantlet. It definitely needs to go down to 2.7 or possibly even 2.3 (At least for RB.
  8. I agree, they are all late war vehicles and probably would not have used those rounds. Most of the tanks in the opposition get good default rounds such as the Panther (better than the best APCBC round for the 17 Pounder).
  9. Well I found this forum post https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=165436 which seems to suggest the gun was a 4 inch BL Gun MkVII. This means it likely only has CPC and HE if new rounds weren't developed for it by WW2. CPC might have a bit of penetration but was not specifically designed to pierce armour.
  10. With any luck its some more Cromwell tanks for the British tree to put us on par with the multiple Panzer IIIs and IVs/T-34s/Shermans. But that's just me.
  11. I gave up on using solid A.P over APDS a while back. I'll only use it if APDS isn't available. There was too much RNG involved in solid A.P even before all this.
  12. I know but I was trying to say that APDS at least hasn't been reduced to Solid A.P levels of post penetration.
  13. Maybe the Panzer III/IV tank: It was only a blueprint though and was never built. It would be classified as a "Paper Tank" in the War Thunder community and might get a negative reaction.
  14. APDS seems fine. 17 Pounder APDS still goes through multiple crew members granted they are in it's path unlike A.P which seems to get caught on the first crew member it hits. I shot a Tiger H1 at point blank in the hull with the 20 Pounder and it's APCBC round but only killed the driver and wounded the commander before it returned fire.
  15. British and American tank and anti tank guns were equipped with APC/APCBC weren't they? A soft cap to reduce the impact effect of the shell/shot thus reducing/eliminating shatter against face hardened armour?
  16. The book "Bellona Military Vehicle Data Number Three" also has information on it but I can't get hold of a copy.
  17. It's the Foden DG/6/10 IIRC. Can't find many details on it though.
  18. Hope they model it's gun velocity soon too. Its like shooting with a worse QF 75mm.
  19. We don't even know if it is a nerf yet as nothing is mentioned in patch notes and there are reports of AP/HESH/HEAT being affected as well.
  20. Woops, should have said British APDS + Any other user of the L7 105mm. All are under performing against vertical armour AFAIK. I didn't realise APCR was under performing that badly in penetration. Britain doesn't/won't have any APCR (Not counting the unexplainable T45 on the Sherman II) until the 6 Pounder is given it so I hadn't done my research.
  21. Ah yes, all APDS is still under performing against vertical. The 17 pounder APDS alone is still missing something like 50mm of penetration IIRC.
  22. Yes, they used both AP and S.A.P rounds (which is British for APHE.)
  23. The same could have been said for the bouncy Russian T-34 armour before the overmatch patch. War Thunder is a game yes but It is a game that tries to give a more accurate feel of plane/tank warfare than certain other games. Of course they will never achieve 100% historical accuracy they can at least try to get the game as close as possible while still retaining the all important fun factor. For example, each of the planes in War Thunder have their own flight model deciding how fast they can fly, turn and dive, meaning that certain planes will outperform others but that is where BR and tiers come in; we can have similar realism in tanks by trying to have accurate damage models reflecting the effects certain rounds have after a penetration: APHE realistically didn't perform how it does in game and so it's performance needs to be adjusted as right now it is giving an unwarranted advantage to the players of nations that used APHE. TL;DR: APHE is an unrealistically good advantage just as sloped armour was before the overmatch patch and should be corrected.
  24. So why would an APHE round explode in a perfect sphere while an HE round would not? Maybe that diagram isn't accurate but I think that APHE still should not slow to a stop and detonate in a perfect sphere.
  25. IIRC, Germany picked up some experience with tanks in the Spanish civil war. Britain used big slow tanks and small faster tanks effectively during WW1 (Heavy tank and Whippet). Britain also thought that WW2 was going to be like WW1 and developed tanks accordingly. The US also had some trouble adapting to modern tank combat.
  26. It wasn't a stupid decision. Britain prefered the ability the penetrate tanks over the ability to make more of a mess of any crewmember unlucky enough to be in the path of the shot than already made by the spall from solid rounds. Britain only uses rifled barrels for HESH, a slip band is placed around the APDSFS round so that it doesn't spin-just like a smoothbore. A round going through more armour will create more spall due to their being more material to push out of the way would it not?
  27. Only in Hollywood, a small bursting charge with less explosive power than a grenade wouldn't always detonate the fuel tank's anymore that flak rounds detonate the fuel tanks on a plane. It might detonate if the round breached fuel tank and exploded inside of it. A round exploding near it could ignite the fuel with fragments of the round causing sparks and even then the fire would have to get past the firewall to get to the crew. Spall depends on how much armour is being pushed out of the way by the round. More armour should equal more spall. This is the opposite in game at the moment, less armour is generating more Spall.
  28. They weren't lighter, they were solid meaning they were heavier. The British actively removed HE filler from American APHE rounds given to them and filled them with concrete because their wasn't any discernible advantage of having the filler. APHE was considered too unreliable and that it was more important to be able to penetrate the tank than deal more damage post-pen.
  29. That only happens in-game. IRL a lot of crewmembers escaped tanks hit by APHE with burns and lacerations. APHE didn't explode in a perfect sphere as it was just designed to increase the amount and deadliness of spall.
  30. This one sticks out, taken from that link: If this was replicated in-game the entire turret crew would be dead. Edit: I should probably point out that this was a 75mm German round hitting a Sherman.
  31. I've been chasing down Tigers with my Charioteer because most of their shots have just gone straight to my engine. I know it's probably wrong but I'm somewhat enjoying former OHK'ers getting the solid shot experience . Hopefully it gets fixed soon and they go about sorting solid shot and APHE the right way.
  32. Tanks/Vehicles

    Technically the British tree should also be the Commonwealth tree as we already have Commonwealth tanks/planes in-game. Besides, Britain fought as the British Empire/British Commonwealth.
  33. Yeah, still makes me chuckle when an APHE round hitting my Cromwell's engine compartment at an angle and detonating next to the engine sends fragments flying in every direction still killing all my crew and igniting my fuel tanks.
  34. There are some documents used in that report showing that APHE did not explode in a perfect sphere like it does in-game. Its not all based on casualty reports. Besides those casuality reports were to show that AP was just as good as APHE-which it isn't in-game.
  35. Could be on par with the 76mm Russian AA gun truck in-game. That was designed to fit into a dual AA/AT role wasn't it? Would be good for the SPG line.
  36. Not as destructive as the German Flak truck though. Although I would like to see those 25 pounder and 6 pounder trucks in game.
  37. True, the 4 inch would give the 88 a run for it's money. Since its the only British thing really comparable with the Russian and German flak guns AFAIK I could see it being added based on limited data.
  38. The 4 Inch gun mobile. Wanted to make a suggestion on it a while back but couldn't find enough data.
  39. You might be right, before all this the round should have at least disabled the turret ring.
  40. This is starting to look like an attempt on Gaijin's part to implement APHE unreliability. Strange that it isn't mentioned in the patch notes. Wasn't there a nerf to solid shot not after British tanks were released that wasn't listed either?
  41. I still get plenty of moments with solid shot where it turns the crew and modules of a tank a funny colour. The 6 Pounder is notorious for that.
  42. I think he meant that APHE still feels like easy mode after using British solid shot.
  43. I probably would have got the same if I'd used the full decimal number. So the effective LoS thickness of the armour with slope should be 195.91 rather than 220.7?
  44. So with this formula (Sorry if my calculations aren't correct) the Centurion Mk 10's effective hull front thickness should be about 105mm?
  45. ground vehicles

    Would be nice to have some light tanks in British high tier. It would make up for the modest speed of British MBT's and TD's.
  46. ground vehicles

    I provided a response mixed with a bit of friendly banter. It wasn't a smartass remark, I seriously couldn't see anything that justifies a Canadian tank being placed in a US tree before the British one except that Canada was closer geographically which is still a silly reason. The basic point is that Canada during the war was a British dominion so Canadian tanks (even if based off of US ones) should be in the British tech tree. Australia is closer to the USA than the UK and also worked extensively with the US but you don't see their M3 Lee based Thunderbolt tank in the US tree. Obviously they won't move the M4A5 now but we can at least try to stop them making any more mad decisions like that (e.g. Skink). So yes we can get back to the topic now.
  47. I know and I agree with those people. At the moment it doesn't seem like Gaijin will be changing the RU-251's BR any time soon. I could be wrong but I wouldn't want to see this added (probably also quite far off) at a higher BR than the RU-251 without the RU-251 moving up with it.
  48. It would club panthers at any BR below 7.3. The RU-251 is at 6.7 with 102mm of HESH penetration so perhaps 6.7 for the Saladin too?
  49. It would be more like the Korea map. Low passes and high ground.
  50. Depends how good the performance of the AP round you mentioned is. The HE round wouldn't be very effective I imagine.
  51. Sandy and mountainous.
  52. ground vehicles

    ^This They even labelled their Ram and Grizzly tanks as Cruisers. They also produced and helped develop a lot of our Valentine tanks.
  53. ground vehicles

    Britain also cooperated with the US military, the T14 is one example. A Cromwell tank was sent to the USA for testing (across that freaking ocean) but that wouldn't be in the US tree would it? Also, what effect does distance between the mother country and dominion (as Canada was during WW2) have on whether a tank should be in one tree or the other anyway? Wait so making a cheap remark about two of the most brought up stereotypes of British people was intelligent but me doing the same about U.S Americans wasn't?
  54. ground vehicles

    You mean like it's geographical location? Just because Canada is next to the USA it doesn't mean all it's equipment is overweight and lacking affordable health care
  55. You mean the pipsqueak? IIRC it had the same performance as the Little John.
  56. The penetration for HESH is the same for all angles and distances though.
  57. Not much difference between an out house and a Tiger as far as the internal mechanics go Only joking but yes Kasserine pass would make a very good map.
  58. ground vehicles

    Yeah, seems Gaijin didn't listen to the negative feedback when they added the Ram to the US tree as a premium.
  59. ground vehicles

    You're forgetting that Gaijin wouldn't add *everything* from that spreadsheet for the main tree. Things like the Schofield tank wouldn't need to be added since the tree already has two reserves. Vehicles like the Skink variants and Ram early/lates can be nested together to reduce the grind needed to progress through the tech tree.
  60. Ah, so thats what has been causing 120mm HESH to often fail on Tiger 2 UFP's. Perhaps a BR of 6.0? The offroad speed of the Saladin and low velocity of it's 76mm should also be considered.
  61. 90mm at any angle would be good enough at a BR of 6.3/6.7 maybe?
  62. That seems to fit with what is shown In that document. The effectiveness of the HESH round against the Comet's mantlet would have only dazed the crew.
  63. +1. Information from a document I found suggests that the HESH round was effective against more than 64mm of armour but less than 102mm or armour:
  64. Please be a typo.
  65. The excelsior's armour is 114mm at thickest. I imagine this will be both the front hull and turret just like the Churchill III with its 89mm.
  66. ground vehicles

    The UK tree should be the commonwealth tree IMO.
  67. Strange, Panther D's penetration at 30 degrees from horizontal is more than 80mm. The Centurion's front plate is only 76.2mm at 32 degrees from horizontal. Maybe the Centurion Mk 1 could go to 6.0 but only if it got the APCBC round as standard with APDS unlockable to eliminate stock syndrome. Also remember that APHE is a pretty big advantage right now. The Centurion Mk 1's mantlet is a pretty big target and is only 127mm thick, any APHE rounds going through that can ignite the ammo or kill the entire crew.
  68. Would indeed be nice to have the .5 Vickers in-game.
  69. tanks/vehicles

    Wow, now that is impressive.
  70. +1 Could see it being at 2.3 before the Valentine Mk 1 since it would probably have similar performance to the SU-57 in the Russian premium branch.
  71. tanks/vehicles

    +1, Any idea on the penetration of that 15mm Besa? I imagine it could go through a little bit more armour than an M2 Browning. Also that AA variant looks like a good candidate for Tier 1 BR 1.0 AA.
  72. I could deal with and even be happy with most of that except for the Centurion Mk 1. It's hull front and mantlet can be penetrated with the Panther D's (5.7) default round (Free) whilst the Centurion Mk 1 has to keep aiming for the Mantlet until unlocking APDS (230 SL) which is still not as effective as APHE. It's essentially a British Panther and should stay at 5.7 imo. Perhaps the Centurion Mk 2 could go to 6.0/6.3 if added. Also the FV4202 couldn't fire APDS so that is why it hasn't got it.
  73. That's what I meant. The Excelsior used a widened Cromwell track so I assumed the transmission came with it. Crap reverse is slightly more bearable with a neutral steer as quick as the Cromwell's.
  74. Not to mention the ability to neutral steer that I imagine comes with the second prototype. With The QF 75mm I could see it being at 4.3 between the Churchill III and the Churchill VII.
  75. Those have forward cannons though right? I don't think the Gannet has anything like that.
  76. It was probably the lack of offensive/defensive weaponry against air targets.
  77. It's the same story with most of the armour bugs for British tanks reported. Still waiting for the 17 Pounder's APDS to get its proper penetration.
  78. People must be really thirsty for tea
  79. Yeah it was often used against fortifications to smoke out occupants iirc. At reserve tier though, the enemy tanks would have enough speed to drive out of the smoke cloud quickly.
  80. It almost sounds like Gaijin have modelled fuse failure. Nothing in the patch notes though.
  81. At least we could still have the A9 with a 2 Pounder. Still a nifty little gun despite the solid shot nerf.
  82. Shame, looks like the 3.7 inch might be useless for in-game purposes.
  83. Ah yes, I think that was mentioned in the A10 post. The HE was a smoke shell with a tiny bit of HE filler.
  84. +1, If the CS was a reserve tank, the HE might actually be effective depending on the filler for it.
  85. Haha, I think it could handle 3.7 but If they put it at 4.0 or over I would probably loose my trolley.
  86. A fix for British ammo doesn't seem to be too high up on Gaijin's to-do list right now. For now British tankers just have to hope that RNG is with them every time they go into battle.
  87. +1 Would definitely flesh out the cruiser line a bit. Any information on that 3.7in howitzer for the CS version? Wikipedia says it's derived for the 3.7in mountain howitzer and if it can fire the same rounds it could give this cruiser a useful HEAT round.
  88. Lol, makes me wonder why the US didn't go for Christie suspension like the UK and USSR did. Christie combined with some of those powerful engines used in the Shermans would be quite something.
  89. Ah okay, explains why the T17 handles and accelerates better.
  90. The AEC AA we have in-game does pretty poorly offroad. Not sure if its realistic in performance.
  91. Could be good for the Urban maps. It'll probably be slower than the Scorpion offroad.
  92. Ah, could be interesting. Faster than even a scorpion I imagine.
  93. I thought it was the other way around? A scorpion with a fox turret? Edit: The Sabre as seen below was a Scorpion with a Fox turret.
  94. Perhaps have any armoured cars sharing the same weaponry as a Light Tank/CVR being nested with it in the tree.
  95. Thought I edited it before any one noticed lol. I forgot about the Fox.
  96. And finish it with the FV721 Fox?
  97. Nice, starting to think I could very much enjoy any vehicle with the 3" Howitzer attached to it.
  98. Wow 150mm of pen? At 30 degrees too? That would be superior to the 95mm HEAT. Perhaps somehow the 76mm had more filler than the 95mm, the 95mm is bigger but I guess the 76mm could be longer.
  99. I think that 3" HEAT round in WWII Ballistics may be in reference to the RP-3 rockets mounted on the Sherman Tulip. While the Tulip is not in-game, the Cromwell RP-3 is and the penetration for the 3" RP-3 rockets it has is 75mm.
  100. Hi, can anyone confirm that the penetration for the 3 Inch GC's 76mm is correct? It has a higher muzzle velocity than either the US 75mm m3 or the QF 75mm and a similarly sized shell but performs worse than both guns.