bellezza03

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bellezza03 last won the day on July 3 2016

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About bellezza03

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    Italian Guns Consultant
  • Birthday 02/10/1999

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    WWII, panzer divisions, luftwaffe, u-boots, super props
    Apollo missions,space, anime ,history books

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  1. hull? Yes it's almost impossible. Turret. No problem. Now if we could have real 128 mm penetration...
  2. i saw on the Net and it's claimed from Jane's Ammunition Handbook. But i don't know how to search there. Can you?
  3. T33 i understand.. Apds... fire and pray XD
  4. added a really rare image of 90/53 APCBC
  5. 20 pdr APDS table from the already cited source About L1 APDS. Enlarged and underlined pass of what is intersitng to us. now you can add those 2 ammunition
  6. It s writed in the document i posted. Enlarge the image and read it l.Maybe i will post an enlarged photo of the piece to see it better. It s a bit difficult. For 20 pdr chart i have obtained it. So today i will post it. For that 17 pdr chart the document was found by "the chieftain" in british archieves. No mention to a particolar report so that's it.. It s an historical source for sure but i don t know if gaijin will accept it.
  7. what? Jets where a well mastered tecnology and every pilot already saw the huge advantage of speed over anything that started the speed race that ended only with the 4th gen Jets. Britain was also using it's jet against V1s. US was finishing to refine the P80s.... They would have used them for sure
  8. more important above all... US had Von Braun and all his team. A upscaled V2 was already in Von Braun mind to put in orbit something. A 2 stage V2. With the proper resources i can see bigger rockets incoming really fast.
  9. L1G documentation is fine for 1000 yards. We have both flat and 60° by sources of high level . 20 pdr what kind of more info? Another table? For 17 pdr i will provide document name
  10. Conraire you can furthermore backup 1 st gen with the 17 pdr documentation, then you should post about L1G APDS and 20 pdr APDS mkIII. Otherwise i can post myself when i come back from school.
  11. when this thing get's it's historical penetration i will research it just to have the fun in piercing mercylessly IS3 UFP from everywhere
  12. I wish a war thunder with correct ammuntion where the tanks can be divided in WW2, Corea and Vietnam (60s).
  13. You can also put point black penetration. 325 mm flat and 138 mm at 60°
  14. Yea. US had much much bigger reserves of tungsten. So they could use bigger cores
  15. Read again.. that s 30° values. At 0° instead it s 361
  16. That's it guys..... That all the material i have. I think we can do a bug report for this
  17. Ok so let's start. First generation APDS. Slopes modifiers for first generation APDS 17 Pdr APDS MK1 20 pdr APDS mk III
  18. I will post the documention here first under spoiler to have an idea how to proceed with a bug report. For chief reload i will see if chart say something
  19. don't need to found anything. I already have it)))))))))))))))))))))))
  20. In game the chieftain APDS are overperforming actually. Penetration at the muzzle is fine ( 162 mm at 60°) but then the round lose really too few penetration. less than 10 mm oer 2km. Also in game we have the L15A3 ( just saying all the L15 series had the same design.What changed was meterials). In game the L15A3 defeats 153 mm at 2000 meters. It overperform even the L15A4 that was made in DU that could defeat 150 mm at 60° at 1200 meters. Real values for the L15A3 as i already posted are 152 mm at 60° at 914 meters and 142 mm at 60° at 1830 meters from DEFE 15/1183. Intersting enaught DEFE 15/1183 gives also official values of conqueror APDS citing the improvement over those. The Conqueror APDS are said to pierce 125 mm at 60° at 1000 yards. That's the best we can get about those second generation of APDS. From Jane's we also know that flat penetration at 1000 meters was 355 mm. This leads us to a 2.36 X modifiers for chief APDS. So for L15A3 we have 0 yards: 382 mm/0° 162mm/60° 1000 yards: 355 mm/0° 152mm/60° 2000 yards: 335 mm/0° 142mm/60° Instead for Conqueror APDS we are still in full first gen APDS with that horrible 3,5 X modifier ( souce WW2 ballistics armor and gunnery). In fact penetration of the Conqueror is listened at 446 mm at 1000 yards. Dividing by 3.5 and we have 127 mm. Which correspond to what we found in official documentation. So for L1A1 APDS we have this. Now since there are no more certain datas aside 1000 yards performance i will use L15A3 speed loss to have a general idea about L1A1 APDS 0 yards 473 mm/0° 135 mm/60° 1000 yards 446 mm/0° 125 mm/60° 2000 yards 426 mm/0° 121 mm/60° About the other first gen APDS ( 17 pdr and 20 pdr ) they had 3.5 X modifier too at 60°. 17 pdr could defeat 78 mm of armor at 60°PB, while 20 pdr could defeat 89 mm of armor at 60° PB. Here you can also see why when T54 arrived UK immidiatly developed the 105 mm gun while in game the 20 pdr APDS massively overperform at 60° while underperform against flat armor This is the design of the L15A3 APDS. There are also info on HESH. As you can see design in the L15 series did not change. Little note: As you can see from the 1945 trought the '50s the APDS design did not change. The desing was the same "Fatty" core from 17 pdr to 120 mm. those ammunition performed similar to HVAP. In fact from 17 pdr to 20 pdr up to the 120 mm L1A1 there was a leap forward in flat penetration but at 60° we have much less improvements. Then as you can see the chief with 120 mm with a new design, which is more similar to more modern ammunition and you can also see the massive improvement in performance against sloped armor. Then when we arrive to L7 you can see the final improvements as the lenght increase more and more and width decreases. I THINK WE SHOULD DO A REALLY BIG BUG REPORT ABOUT APDS.
  21. non ci vuole un genio che a parte un iniziale spam di tiger giapponesi adesso tutto tace.... i team tedeschi sono come sempre team tedeschi. Ogni tanto esce la bandiera giapponese perchè o c'è un tiger giapponese o un bulldog giapponese. era III e IV sono deserte di japanese. Era V pure. Sicuramente avranno venduto parecchio i premium. Per tutto il resto si è stato un flop
  22. 105 L7 should defeat 130 mm at 60°. And according to what i saw in chieftain documents rise up to 136 mm at 50° and 140 mm at 45°. For chief gaijin should maintain current penetration at 60° of 150 mm, then 157 mm at 50° and 160 mm at 45°. This would do a much more accurate and decent DM for the HESH rounds. I plan to do a big bug report with the british documentations to see if we can change something.
  23. In 3 mesi se ne vale la pena ci arrivi.. e cmq anche a era III carri japanese manco l ombra
  24. Apprezzato ma quel taglio chirugico al tronco non me gusta
  25. Ru251 is a hellcat on steroids. On the hands of a decent playet it can break the backbone of the enemy team alone... now if your concept of flanking is going head on and firing first you are doing it wrong... this tank can flank so fast that the enemy will not notice your presence like it happenes when i play my cromwell. It can easily go 7.7 and not suffer. It will be pierced the same by anything and kill anything the same... and overall on a decent BR away from ww2 stuff. Ammunition coff coff... t29 is a walking santa barbara hit from the sides. And heat-fs love to ignite stuff at once...
  26. 1) yea we know that 90/53 probably has filler. But no precise data. The book for it will arrive next month so we will know. 2) maybe i did some writing errors. I will check 3) all sources with starting values are cited in the first page in a lower post. And by the way most of the stuff that can be found on internet it's wrong and with no source..
  27. Ahahahaha... Questi xlykos selvaggi...
  28. Yea first rounds with 160 grams where too soft.Anyway with first rounds at 2 km it was difficult to pierce a KV.Different story with the panzergranate39. In late 42 it was completly solved with this round.
  29. Happened with 6 pdr too... and 17 pdr APDS (sometimes but much rare even 17 pdr AP)...
  30. Penetration of the chief now is correct at 60°. It s not my fault if the there is a crappy system and other angles underperforming because of this
  31. Said who? Mr nothing? Those are official recorded ballistic trials of 1963.. It's above anything you can post (aside other 2 official sources claiming otherwise).. let alone vague words without backup... If they would put correct values it wouldn t with a proper machanic...
  32. About the 120 mm HESH nerf is historical as demonstred here. For other calibers i don t know
  33. Tanks/Vehicles

    Penetration values of the 17 cm Kanone Pzgr.43 71 kg at 830 m/s 200 mm at 60° at 3000 meters ( which is like game standard so 30° from vertical ). Corrected to 0° in USN criteria we have 273 mm at 3000 meters. Datas from:
  34. L15A4 APDS. Same shape of the L15A3 but had DU nose that improved the behaviour against sloped armor. From WO32/21469. January 1968. 150 mm plate at 60° now defeated at 1250 yards against the 1000 yards of the L15A3
  35. A4 and A5 are not in game. They used DU nose to improve performance against sloped armor. They where projected to have a bigger killing zone against T-64/T72. Anyway about the L15A3 in game from DEFE 15/1182 test of APDS in january 1963. Second chart is same ammunition from May 1963 testing DEFE 15/1123. Warning. It seems like the first table has too gentle performacne. Probably the test plate was flawed.... where? Is it about HESH behaviour?
  36. that's RNG... blame gaijin glorius penetration systems... And yes Also APDS are a mess with slope modifiers. 17 pdr and 20 pdr that had early generation APDS that performed much more similar to HVAP agaisnt sloped armor here in game have their flat penetration reduced because they use a SINGLE slope modifiers of later APDS( keep in mind a single modifier for ammunition that from 1945 to 1970 improved god knows how much), so to not make them overperforming at 60° (30° in game) they reduced flat penetration. Opposite problem has the chief. To not make Chief APDS to undeperform at 60° they rised the flat penetration even over what was IRL.... Indeed they are. They are the best documentation about current chieftain ammunition. Those where 1963 trials. I also have 1968 trials with L15A4/5 APDS shots tested. BTW i should do a bug report about this....
  37. It's from DEFE 15/1183. Really hard to find documents. You have to know how to search. But all this stuff was declassified by UK governament a while ago and can be obtained Have fun https://tankandafvnews.com/defe-15-1183-l11-brochure/
  38. First: I know how hesh work. Second: Meanwhile in real life slopes despite has much much less effectivness still reduces the "thickness of the defeated plate" (you like it more now? ). Also shows as now Chieftain HESH are now overperforming at 60° angle... Official UK test about APDS and HESH of the L11 gun in 1963.
  39. It heavily depends on what tank you are using... Removing the Muzzle brake on the Tiger I will cause the gun to destroy the entire recoil system, making gun not operable in best scenario. Killing/injuring someone in the most probable... In fact Tiger crews where instructed to not fire if muzzle brake was damaged in battle.
  40. SF-70H best tank 2017 Comunque per quanto io sia un amante del motore a scoppio e di bestioni aerenoutici.... la discussione delle fiammelle si prega o di terminarla o spostarla in privato. Troppo spam.Altrimenti poi arriva il signore delle pulizie
  41. This... This!!!! Stanno infettando anche le CW!!!
  42. Now when HESH will get proper penetration mechanics and correct loss of penetration as slope increase?
  43. 10% chance? Ahahahahaha lol WW2 fuses chance of successfull detonation was 90%. Failure rate is 10%. Modern ammunition have 97% of success and 3% of failure
  44. ottimo carro. Sarà un mezzo divertente. P.S. hanno aggiunto gli APDS al centurion MKI
  45. Those 85 mm corners are well angled back. 136 mm of effettive armor which is stronger than the actual UFP... it was a weakspot because gaijin.. now that they finally fixed lower angle armor cheecks are strongpoints.
  46. There is also the doom turtle that is almost immune to anything and has the same T29 cannon. Super pershing also despite the armor not being the best has the nuke M82 which is a good round... Yanks have their decent stuff too
  47. già.... A che serve combattere quando L AA dell aereoporto può stuprare l'intero team in 3 secondi...
  48. maus is one of the few tanks that is still immune from 120 mm HESH rounds. Not 183 mm ones tho.. I think that only tank in game that can take a 183 mm HESH is the Doom turtle... Nothing else
  49. Confermo che la ricarica è esterna
  50. british report about 3 tiger tanks welds captured in normandy. They performed extremely well even if hit 120 times by 17 pdr and 6 pdr rounds of all types. More details later. Now i'm in school -.- tiger tanks high quality welds... As tiger production factory had really strict controls on both armor quality and assmebly. Panther instead was another story
  51. Thanks for conferming my words.. as you can see production standards for panthers where bad and production quality varied from excellent to normal to bad quality as found in allied ballistic trials of 17 pdr when a panther substained 30 76 mm hits on UFP without a problem, another started to offer less resistance after 5 hits and the third after a 6 hit completly lost a piece of UFP... Tiger was another story. Reports of Tiger I and II captured in normandy say that in contrast to what was found on panthers tiger construction and steel quality remained constant
  52. Good? Yea. OP? Please....
  53. Lol what???? Ahahahahah... high quality alloy used for panthers.... yea sure. Panther was the first tank to suffer from harder steel and eventually even bad construction craft. Completly different story for the Tiger series. Tigers where considered rare valuable machines and production standards where the higher germany could assure. English reports say that tiger welding and construction is of a fine quality while steel is comparable to allied machinable one. Also ONCE AGAIN Crome alloy DID NOT cause the plate to perform worse than a molibdenium-steel plate. The protection levels where the same. Problem was the plate response to heavy hits that caused more spalling than precedent alloy. Thats the downgrade. So armor modifier for Tiger II as said since 2 years is completly unjustified and was putted in purely for balance reasons. Now it s not needed anymore. REMOVE IT.
  54. Tanto è su una nave crucca -.- Sempre italiana è... OTO melara è la regina dei cannoni navali di mezzo mondo. Il 76 mm DART e 127/64 LW sono i migliori cannoni navali in circolazione
  55. a era II-III iniziale tutto buca tutto. E cmq il KV-1 angolato resiste molto bene al KwK40.provato in prima persona. Dead on invece... Cmq con i sabot non vedo dove sia l'acchiappa la talpa, spari alla driver station e ti porti al creatore driver,gunner e commander (questo 60-40), ricarichi e spari o al radio operator o al servente,lavoro finito. Di solito i cannoni brits ricaricano prima ancora che l'equipaggio switchi. Provato col cromwell e col MK7 contro panzer IV et simili... Da me funziona cosi. Da te non so... L'acchiappa la talpa è contro roba tipo flakbus prima della patch hullbreak... Cmq se il centurion MKIII riceve gli APDS poi va spostato a 6.0
  56. le AP vanno mirate ciccio... il tiger non gioca contro gli sherman e basta... che shottino ne sono consapevole.. ma anche gli apds quando entrano 2-3 nella tomba te li porti
  57. Gli APDS del 17 pdr sono più performanti del 77 HV... il fatto che poi il centurion mk3 stia a quel br con un 20 pdr che ricarica ogni 6 secondi non giustifica l introduzione di altra roba del genere... Vedo gente lamentarsi a destra e sinistra dei brits quando hanno carri davvero buoni .. a sentire i vari tizi del forum i carri inglesi basta guardarli male per vincere. Bah...
  58. no perchè cosi diventa inbilanciabile... 5.7-6.0 Finisce a clubbare tiger e panther con la point and click adventure e il classico reload MG, 6.3 viene stroppiato dai Tiger II, IS-2... Ecco perchè.Quindi o si danno le munizioni e le si danno con le performance vere o non le dai propio... a proposito sai quanti mezzi non hanno le munizioni che potevano usare?
  59. vuoi gli APDS ? Dagli l'accuratezza storica e poi portane quanti ne vuoi... basta con le munizioni laser che ti bucano dovunque con qualsiasi corazza...
  60. This... we need proper overmatch mechanics
  61. The only thing i don t understand is how the T29 is faster than Tiger IIs.. for everything else i learned how to counter T29s. I have to admit that sometimes eats shells when it shouldn t.. but anyway. Only thing i want is now my full 185 mm plate on turret and proper overlapping of the mantlet with the turret on Tiger II. Then nothing to complain about
  62. Palesemente buggato.. anche se cristo gaijin... Intanto hanno dato un buff al 120 dell M103.. è ancora sotto di potenza ma già va meglio.. e sopratutto devasta ogni cosa appena entra. Il centurion Mk I per il pacchetto rof/depressione/corazza che ha a 5.7 non ha bisogno degli APDS. È un ottimo counter a panther e Tiger. Buff mostruoso anche a HESH sia in ricochet chance che perforazione. Addio alle HEAT-FS del Leopard. Vado full HESH.
  63. Ok now i can waste that lions burner of HEAT-FS on the Leopard. HESH is the way
  64. Still have some hope for 128 and 105 mm guns...
  65. bene è ufficiale... CW diventano P2W.... O IS6 oppure RU251...
  66. Controlla la corazza dell IS6...
  67. non ci sono munizioni anticarro per il 155.... solo HE con 12.7 kg di Esplosivo...
  68. I understand gas shortage... but tiger crews say there was never ammunition shortage... not by that range... 5 shots... lol
  69. Hi guys after some hard work that we had during those years is time to publish some datas about italian guns. Generally people when think about italians weaponary against tanks, that italy could field , immidiatly think about the 47 mm and nothing more....and on the Internet it's difficult to find something reliable about those guns. So In this topic i will post datas about penetration power and battle/test reports to give you an idea of how the italians guns will perform in game when they will come and obviusly from an historical point of view it will help someone who is searching for datas. So here we go. ( Those datas are from italian tests converted then to ingame criteria. Also from here onwards i will refer to HEAT shells as EPS ( Special ready effect ) and HESH as EP ( Ready effect ). those where the names given at HEAT and HESH rounds by italians Topic will gradually recieve all the datas since there is a lot of stuff) For any doubt or curiosity ask here : D 47/32 Mod 1935 APBC mod 35 round weight of the shell: 1,5 kg Filling: 30 grams of TNT penetration angle of attack : 0° 10 meters : 58 mm 500 meters : 50 mm 1000 meters : 42 mm 1500 meters : 36 mm 2000 meters : 30 mm APCBC mod 39 round Weight of the penetrator: 1.4 kg filling : 30 grams of TNT angle of attack : 0° 10 meters : 68 mm 500 meters : 60 mm 1000 meters : 52 mm 1500 meters : 47 mm 2000 meters : 41 mm Several T34s where knocked out thanks the great mobility of this AT gun that was really light. At kursk the range was 300-450 meters from the sides and all the hits pierced. The 47 mm was found to be useless against the T34 UFP, but turret could be engaged at short range. 47/32 HE M35 Weight: 2,37 kg Filling: 150 grams of TNT MV: 250 m/s 75/18 Mod 1934/35 75 mm APCBC round weight of penetrator: 6,2 kg Filling: 270 grams of TNT MV: 476 m/s angle of attack : 0° 10 meters : 67 mm 500 meters : 58 mm 1000 meters : 50 mm 1500 meters : 44 mm 2000 meters : 39 mm 75 mm EP round Weight of the penetrator: 5.2 kg MV: 450 m/s penetration ( effects against a 90° plate) At all ranges: effects of spallings, damaged welds, cranks and armor breached for plates thick max 80 mm. ( effects against a 60° plate) At all ranges ( 30 mm max thick plate at 60° suffered spalling and cracks ) Some testing IRL Poland 1942 trials on captured T34/76: No major effect on T34 upper frontal plate North Africa 1942 trials. Targets where a Crusader and a MKII Matilda Crusader 75 mm EP round at 500 meters against crusader side: Armor completly failed, with a full laceration of the side armor of the tank and a enormous breach in the side. Half meter square plate was fully removed 75 mm EP round at 500 meters against crusader front: Welds destroyed with the frontal armor busted and a 30 X 50 cm breach opened in the front. Matilda MK2 75 mm EP round against Matilda mkII front: Deformation and laceration of frontal plate, welds also where broken and turret ring was destroyed. No breach in the armor was opened but huge spalling effects where observed. 75/18 EPS Mod 42 MV: 399 m/s Penetrator weight: 5.31 kg filling: 58% cyclonite, 40,5% TNT 1,5% wax Penetration: 120 mm against a vertical plate ( Was projected to pierce British heavy armor such as Churchill mk3 and Matilda MK2) 59 mm against a 60° plate ( Fully able to defeat a T34 from the front at any pratical range ). One of the greatest success of this gun was against the M3Lee tank at Gazala. 75/18 and flak88 together knocked out 25 British tanks. 75/18 HE M32 Weight: 7.725 kg Filling: 600 grams of TNT 75/32 Mod 1937 APCBC round Weight of the shell: 8.59 kg Filling: 270 grams of TNT MV: 594 m/s Penetration values against a vertical plate (90°) 10 meters : 94 mm 500 meters : 81 mm 1000 meters : 69 mm 1500 meters : 57 mm 2000 meters : 45 mm Historical notes: The gun was projected for an upgrade of the Semovente 75/18. The gun requirements where that had to be able to defeat a Matilda at least at 900 meters with standard AP round. The gun was fitted on the M42 semovente. The further development was the 75/34 that was more powerful and was fitted on the heavy armoured M43 chassis. The semovente M43 75/34 had 75 mm of armor at 11° and kits of add on armor where also produced ( that became standard for the 75/46 version ) and could be used reaching a 100 mm at 11° frontal armor. Thanks to those armor values the semovente M43 could outrange almost any treath, especially with the already mentioned EPS shells. 75 mm EP round Weight of the penetrator: 5.2 kg MV: 580 m/s penetration ( effects against a 90° plate) At all ranges: effects of spallings, damaged welds, cranks and armor breached for plates thick max 80 mm. ( effects against a 60° plate) At all ranges ( 30 mm max thick plate at 60° suffered spalling and cracks ) 75/32 EPS Mod 42 MV: 532 m/s Penetrator weight: 5.31 kg filling: 58% cyclonite, 40,5% TNT 1,5% wax Penetration: 120 mm against a vertical plate ( Was projected to pierce British heavy armor such as Churchill mk3 and Matilda MK2) 59 mm against a 60° plate ( Fully able to defeat a T34 from the front at any pratical range ). 75/32 HE M32 Weight: 6,350 kg Filling: 600 grams of TNT 75/34 gun APCBC Round Weight of the shell: 8.6 kg MV: 624 m/s Filling: 270 grams of TNT Penetration values against a vertical plate (90°) 10 meters : 110 mm 500 meters : 97 mm 1000 meters : 85 mm 1500 meters : 73 mm 2000 meters : 61 mm Historical Notes: This gun was the evolution of the 75/32 gun. New gun breech that allowed higher pressures, new firing mechanims for fast firing rof with those characteristics no surprise that this gun was choosed as the new main armament in 1942 for the semovente line and the P40. The gun was fully capable to deal with any allied armor and obviusly it could fire the EP rounds and the EPS rounds that as already cited where capable to deal with any tank armor. The Gun was fitted on the M42 chassis and the heavier M43 chassis with 100 mm front armor at 11°. In the upper image a rare photo of a M43 75/34 in Russia. 75 mm EP round Weight of the penetrator: 5.2 kg MV: 557 m/s penetration ( effects against a 90° plate) At all ranges: effects of spallings, damaged welds, cranks and armor breached for plates thick max 80 mm. ( effects against a 60° plate) At all ranges ( 30 mm max thick plate at 60° suffered spalling and cracks ) 75/34 EPS Mod 42 MV: 552 m/s Penetrator weight: 5.31 kg filling: 58% cyclonite, 40,5% TNT 1,5% wax Penetration: 120 mm against a vertical plate ( Was projected to pierce British heavy armor such as Churchill mk3 and Matilda MK2) 59 mm against a 60° plate ( Fully able to defeat a T34 from the front at any pratical range ). 75/34 HE M32 Weight: 7.725 kg Filling: 600 grams of TNT 90/53 Mod 1939 The pride of italian WW2 army, the mighty 90/53 had 2 types of AP rounds. First where already usable since the war started, but where not really projected to pierce armor like the early Flak88 ammo. The later ones arrived as soon as the 1943 begun. AP round mod 1939 Penetrator weight: 12,160 kg MV: 758 m/s Filling: None Penetration against flat armor ( 90°) 10 meters : 138 mm 500 meters : 125 mm 1000 meters : 113 mm 1500 meters : 100 mm 2000 meters : 87 mm APCBC round mod 43 penetrator weight: 12,160 kg MV: 773 m/s Filling: none penetration against flat armor (90°) 10 meters : 200 mm 500 meters : 175 mm 1000 meters : 143 mm 1500 meters : 121 mm 2000 meters : 102 mm 90/53 was fitted on many italians AFVs. On sicily a semovente 90/53 division engaged 3 shermans at 2500 yards with success and precise fireand had really good results during the sicily campaign ( A 90 mm that hit a sherman turret pierced and destroyed the turret ring for the energy moving the turrer). On north africa this gun along with the Flak88 was the most feared on the battlefield being able to take out any armor on the battlefield 90/53 HE Weight: 10 kg Filling: 1 kg of TNT MV : 840 m/s 100/17 Mod 14 ( this was an Austrian howitzer used on the mountain warfare during the great war. Italy acquired over 2600 of those pierces after the WWI as war damage reparation . Thanks to the high caliber and some modifications they where perfect for the AT role using HESH of HEAT rounds ) 100 mm EP mod 42 weight: 12.5 kg Weight of filling: 2 kg MV: 430 m/s penetration: devastating effects on plates thick up to 100 mm at flat angle of attack devastating effects on plates thick 45 mm at 60° angle of attack. IRL testing Combined Germany/italy tests in Poland 1942 against latest russian AFVs T34 and KV-1 KV1 100 mm EP against KV-1 turret angled at 25°: Great spalling effects, welds failed and a big piece of armor was cutoff from the turret 100 mm EP against KV-1 turret angled at 25°: Again great spalling effects with the armor that was torn and failed resulting in a breach of 10X2 mm opened Germans technical where surprised and judged the 100 mm HESH superior to the 105 mm HEAT round of their own Howitzer since the 100 mm not only could go trought the heavy KV1 armor but would also cause spalling all around with big damages that would for sure immobilize the tank hit. T34/76 mod42 Not too much to say. A regiment of 100/17 engaged at kursk T34/76s advancing. All the 5 T34/76 where knocked out with absurd amount of damage. Here the Photos: Turret side: 56 mm at little angle: Back hull: 40 mm at 48°. Engine was completly destroyed but the carnage doesn't stop here. In fact due the great results the 100/17 was fitted on a Cannon truck and a special unit was created. The 100/17 proved to be lethal against the British AFVs North Africa tests 1942 Crusader 100/17 EP vs Crusader front hull 500 meters: the whole hit zone was breached and the whole frontal plate was removed from the welds 100/17 EP vs Crusader front Turret 500 meters: The turret was hit and was knocked out from the chassis and landed near the tank Matilda mkII 100/17 EP vs Matilda mkII turret at 500 meters: Huge spalling effects observed with cracks that are spread in every direction from the point of impact. A piece of armor was removed by the turret 100 mm EPS mod 43 Weight: 12.5 kg MV: 430 m/s filling: 58% cyclonite, 40,5% TNT 1,5% wax Penetration 130 mm against flat angle 64 mm at angle of attack of 60° 100/17 HE M32 Weight: 13,49 kg Filling: 2,218 kg of TNT MV: 430 m/s 105/25 Fitted on the M43 chassis in 2 variants. The first M43 ( The one in the photo ) with 100 mm of frontal armor at 11° or the improved M43 chassis with the casemate 100 mm thick at 25°. It was projected to counted any allied armor at the time. The gun that was built on purpose only for the Tank destroyers can be also found in one fort in Italy, with a particular reinforcement of the barrel. APC mod 43 MV: 510 m/s Weight of the penetrator: 16,3 kg Penetration at flat angle of attack 10 meters : 131 mm 100 meters : 129 mm 500 meters : 110 mm 1000 meters : 90 mm 1500 meters : 74 mm 2000 meters : 56 mm EPS mod 43 MV: 390 m/s filling: 58% cyclonite, 40,5% TNT 1,5% wax Weight: 14 kg Penetration 140 mm at flat angle of attack at any range 121 mm at 30° angle of attack at any range 70 mm at 60° angle of attack at any range EP mod 42 Spalling effects up to plates 130 mm thick at flat angle of attack 105/25 HE M32 Weight: 16,3 kg Filling: 2,35 kg of TNT MV: 102/35 This gun is a WWI naval gun used by regia marina on subs and destroyers. Thanks to the high MV velocity and shell weight could not only defeat ships armor but also tank armor. Italians decided to put the gun on a Cannon truck for anti tank role. Proved to be absolutely devastating against crusaders during north africa campaign destroing 15 of them at range without a single loss, but could easily take on much more heavily armored targets. APC shell Weight of the shell: 16 kg MV: 775 m/s penetration against flat angle of attack ( 90°) 10 meters : 206 mm 500 meters : 178 mm 1000 meters : 168 mm 1500 meters : 153 mm 2000 meters : 137 mm HE weight: 13,7 kg MV: 775 m/s Filling: 2.3 kg of TNT 37/54 AT gun APHE round MV: 871 m/s Weight of the penetrator: 698 grams Weight of the filler: 23 grams of TNT Penetration at flat angle of attack 100 meters : 78 mm 500 meters : 67 mm 1000 meters : 54 mm 1500 meters : 43 mm 2000 meters : 34 mm 37/40 AT gun APHE round MV: 640 m/s Weigh of the penetrator: 698 grams weight of the filler: 23 grams of TNT Penetration at flat angle of attack 100 meters : 56 mm 500 meters : 48 mm 1000 meters : 36 mm 1500 meters : 25 mm 2000 meters : 11 mm 37/40 HE Weight: 677 grams Filling: 41,5 grams of TNT 20/65 BREDA this 20 mm fast firing cannon was used on a great variation of italian vehicles, many on SPAA. This gun was also used on a sigle CV33 tankette modified for the Anti tank combat Rate of fire: 240 shot per minute gun weight: 69.3 kg max range: 5.5 km ( in anti air engagements) 1.5 km ( in anti tank combat) 20 X138B 20/65 AP MV: 850 m/s Weight of the Penetrator: 135 grams Filling: 1.6 grams of PETN Penetration 10 meters: 52 mm 500 meters: 35 mm 1000 meters: 18 mm 20 X 138B 20/65 APCR MV: 1216 m/s Weight of the Penetrator: 100 gr Penetration 10 meters : 86 mm 100 meters : 85 mm 500 meters : 48 mm 1000 meters : 30 mm 1500 meters : 25 mm 2000 meters : 22 mm 90mm Cockerill MKIII APFSDS-T Name: M652A1 APFSDS-T weight of sabot: 2.5 kg total round weight: 7,2 kg round lenght: 600 mm MV: 1200 m/sec Penetration:(10/100/500/1000/1500/2000 meters): 120 mm at 60° at 1000 meters 100 mm at 60° at 1500 meters HEAT-T Name: M620A1 HEAT Weight: 4,10 kg Filling: 0.50 kg of Comp B Penetration 260 mm all ranges 0° 127 mm all ranges 60°