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Typhoon 1b VS Fw 190 A-5 and stat cards


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#21 tajj

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:09 PM

 

Roll?

 

Roll much better than it should? LMAO, no its a terrible roller and rolls worse than a Zeros does.

And the zero's currently overperforming in roll

Much faster at high altitude?

 

Nope, it is pretty much spot on. 

 

Highest speed it hits in game is 645 kph at 5300m, which is 400 mph at 17,000 ft.

 

In several articles here there are reported speeds of over 400 mph at 20,000 ft (6,096m) http://www.wwiiaircr...yphoontest.html these are all for late 1942/43 models which it is.

 

at 6km in game its actually possibly even under performing by around 5 - 10 mph. 

 

at 7.5km in game it is going 617 kph or 383 mph, at 24,000 ft in actual tests the plane was going around 385 mph, again slightly off.

 

Well I was in a playing at the same time I posted that so I forgot the explain that by faster in this case I also took acceleration into account.

 

 

Prop Hangs?

 

Difficult to test, but the plane stalls on full elevator and doesn't have that low of a stall speed, it is certainly not capable of prop hanging any more than any other plane.

 

The typhoon is actually the plane I see that prop hang the most after zero.

 

 

 

Yes but a Typhoon should roll better than a Zero.

 

Acceleration? You think a Typhoon shouldn't have good acceleration? what with a 2,200 HP Engine.

 

That last comment is your opinion, as is the perception about the roll and acceleration. It's over performing in climb above 5km that much is true, apart from that it's one of the more accurate FMs we have. 

 

If you want to call it over performing you are going to have to back it up with more than just your opinions. 


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#22 Prussian_Knight

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:14 PM

Umm actually the FW is better at low altitudes than it Is up high. A lot better.

Typhoon easily out turns it. You were doing something badly wrong.
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#23 GrapeJam

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:27 PM

Acceleration? You think a Typhoon shouldn't have good acceleration? what with a 2,200 HP Engine.

at high altitude,specifically past 3km, much higher than it should and it's related to the climb rate.

 


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#24 Cellulanus

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:41 PM

 do prop hanging like nobody's business.

 

 

 

This is not a matter of planes, this is a problem with mouse control and instructor.

 

Even when I try to prophang in my G-10 the engine torque sends me into a spin and I have to concentrate more on keeping the plane straight then shooting at whatever the target is.


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#25 RainbowToh

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:39 PM

Acceleration and Fw190's awesome energy retention in level n dives. It is easier to energy trap 109s, but much harder to trap 190s.

 

As for the outturning, seems like he did a pass, then did 1 more turn with u before breaking off. Smart guy. Im guessing he picked up speed to around 600kph. BnZ u, using his speed, did a vertical yoyo,  Fw190s turns decently at high speed, tries another pass. By now his speed would be 300-400 or slower, at which he cant turn for crap, and he breaks off.

 

A Typhoon can chase down a Fw190, but if that Fw190 just came out from a dive, expect some chasing. Typhoon accelerates alittle slow, and you will only start gaining after, about 30 seconds of chasing.


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#26 Amur_Tiger

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:52 PM

Umm actually the FW is better at low altitudes than it Is up high. A lot better.

Typhoon easily out turns it. You were doing something badly wrong.

 

Typhoon's pretty low-altitude focused as well so that shouldn't be a source of significant performance separation, huge horsepower but a relatively undeveloped engine in terms of supercharging kept the Saber-carrying Typhoons pretty low-altitude.


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#27 swizler

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:35 PM

pretty much anything can out turn 190's but im assuming this guy means he had a 190 on his tail and was shot while turning.  190 has great initial turn and roll rate at high speed.  That initial turn  lasts 0.5-1 seconds and is enough if you have great aim.  


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#28 FockeWulf156

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:07 AM

Alright. Just played a game with my typhoon 1b and a Fw 190 outclimbs me, outruns me and outturns me.

 

What? I mean the stat-cards arent completely accurate but what the hell?

 

26 m/s climbrate vs 14 m/s

 

And yet when we met he was at a bit higher altitude? How?... Magic?

 

Anyhow, I didn't want to engage so at about 4 km distance from him I started actively avoiding. Sitting at about 600km/h in a shallow dive (because he was catching up when I flew plain and I knew that Fw190 have their top speed at higher alt) for several minutes knowing that I should have superior speed, especially at this altitude (4-5k meters). We're talking really shallow here. Just enough for me to gain some quick speed and then keep it.

 

He still gains on me. Pretty quickly. I'm like wtf, and as a last resort I turnfight with him. He takes the bait, turns with me, outturns me for another salvo then breaks off and gains 3km distance over a few seconds and I retreat. I must say I'm quite amazed at this point.

 

600km/h top speed vs 655km/h I might add. In favor of me

 

Later on. At similiar altitude he engages me again. Several kilometers distance and I don't wanna head on. He gains on me going horizontally. I had to turn around and fight back and by doing so I damaged him and he shot my wing off. 

 

 

 

Can anyone explain this to me? I know the Fw 190 is a great little thing with good energy retention, but I was just outclassed in every aspect that I thought the Typhoon would have the advantage in

Well... Both planes are AWESOME if used properly, the point is you did SOMETHING wrong and screwed it.

Also stat cards are awful, that is why chaika's can outrun bf109 f4's ;D 


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#29 Prussian_Knight

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:19 AM

Just a case of "it killed me and its German, so its OP."
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#30 CmdrSloth

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:21 AM

Alright. Just played a game with my typhoon 1b and a Fw 190 outclimbs me, outruns me and outturns me.

 

A 190 A can indeed out climb the Typhoon, and if your at decent altitude, can also out run it.

 

A 190 A, however, can only out turn a Typhoon once, and only at high speeds.

 

If the fight turns into a slow, low, turn fight, the Typhoon will out turn the 190 A.


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#31 FockeWulf156

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:21 AM

Just a case of "it killed me and its German, so its OP."

Could be...


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#32 Nerd1000

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:23 AM

at high altitude,specifically past 3km, much higher than it should and it's related to the climb rate.

Do you have an acceleration test you can show us? As tajj pointed out, its pretty accurate up to about 5000m, so without evidence i'm afraid I'm going to have to apply the scientific default hypothesis, and assume that you are talking out of your male donkey.

 

On the topic of power output:

Typhoon has a 2-speed supercharger. Rated power @ altitude is 2220 hp @ 2500 ft (762m) in MS gear and 1735 hp @ 17,000 ft (5181m) in FS gear with a Sabre IIa.


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#33 UF068160

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:24 AM

Germans overperforming isn't anything new. But tbh, I found the typhoon beeing always the way superior plane.


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#34 Jorma_Sarvanto

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:41 AM

Typhoon is the greatest nemesis of the Fw190A-5. Spitfires are nothing compared to a competent typhoon pilot.


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#35 tajj

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:36 AM

at high altitude,specifically past 3km, much higher than it should and it's related to the climb rate.

 

 

Stats or something to back it up?, climb and speeds at 3km are about spot on so that would suggest engine output is about spot on as well.

 

As I pointed out it is actually hitting its top speed a bit lower than it should and is even a little underpowered in places, but certainly up to about 5km the speed and climb performance is within about a 5% tolerance of the real life tests that vary quite a lot for a Typhoon anyway especially with all the various tweaks they made to it.

 

 

 

Typhoon is the greatest nemesis of the Fw190A-5. Spitfires are nothing compared to a competent typhoon pilot.

 

 

 

A lot of that is to do with the FMs, to counter an A5 the Spitfire Mk IX should be a Merlin 63 or Merlin 66 not a Merlin 61, adding about 150 HP. meaning it would be matching the speed of the A5 and out climbing it. Add in the broken dive speed and energy retention the Spitfire Mk IX we have is a glorified Zero at the moment.

 

A fixed Merlin 63 or Merlin 66 Spitfire would match the speed and out climb the A5 and would be much more a match for it than it is currently.


Edited by tajj, 22 November 2013 - 11:40 AM.

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#36 Jorma_Sarvanto

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:48 AM

Stats or something to back it up?, climb and speeds at 3km are about spot on so that would suggest engine output is about spot on as well.

As I pointed out it is actually hitting its top speed a bit lower than it should and is even a little underpowered in places, but certainly up to about 5km the speed and climb performance is within about a 5% tolerance of the real life tests that vary quite a lot for a Typhoon anyway especially with all the various tweaks they made to it.





A lot of that is to do with the FMs, to counter an A5 the Spitfire Mk IX should be a Merlin 63 or Merlin 66 not a Merlin 61, adding about 150 HP. meaning it would be matching the speed of the A5 and out climbing it. Add in the broken dive speed and energy retention the Spitfire Mk IX we have is a glorified Zero at the moment.

A fixed Merlin 63 or Merlin 66 Spitfire would match the speed and out climb the A5 and would be much more a match for it than it is currently.

The spitfires level speeds are correct.
The LF IX with 150 octane is 1944-45 plane, it should not fight the A5. And the energy retention of Spitfire pre Griffon pre 150 octane was bad.

The Merlin 63 didn't match the speeds of the A5, if I remember correctly.
My point still stands.
The Typhoon is simply better at energy related areas where the Fw190 was strong.
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#37 Sieptium

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:49 AM

Well... Both planes are AWESOME if used properly, the point is you did SOMETHING wrong and screwed it.

Also stat cards are awful, that is why chaika's can outrun bf109 f4's ;D 

There wasn't much I could have done. The graph someone posted pretty clearly shows that the Fw 190 will outclimb,outrun and outdive me. Maybe I would have gotten him in that turn but he sure as hell had better initial turning and when he broke off he still had so much energy I couldn't believe. 

 

Typhoon is the greatest nemesis of the Fw190A-5. Spitfires are nothing compared to a competent typhoon pilot.

Well.. he got up to altitude faster, had better speed, dive and control than I did. So I honestly don't know what else I could have done except for avoiding combat and climbing for 70% of the game, then engaged once I had a huge alt advantage


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#38 tajj

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:33 PM

The spitfires level speeds are correct.
The LF IX with 150 octane is 1944-45 plane, it should not fight the A5. And the energy retention of Spitfire pre Griffon pre 150 octane was bad.

The Merlin 63 didn't match the speeds of the A5, if I remember correctly.
My point still stands.
The Typhoon is simply better at energy related areas where the Fw190 was strong.

 

 

Nope, they aren't the Spitfire's have supercharger issues and radiator issues, probably another auto-engine management issue but the LF MK IX for example is loosing too much speed at higher altitudes, climbing a bit too well very low as well then worse higher up. 

 

IIRC the top speed for a Spit Mk XI with a Merlin 66 was around 408 mph at 22,000ft, the Merlin 63 produced the same power as the Merlin 66 but at a slightly higher altitude, so would produce similar speeds. 

 

The A5's top speed was around the same 408 mph at a slightly lower altitude, the were similar in speed with the 190 being faster down low and the Spitfire being faster higher up,

 

Of course the Spitfire won't match the 190 in dive and zooms, but the Spitfire is under performing in energy retention none the less. With correct FMs and the right model the Spitfire would out climb the 190, the speeds would depend on the altitude, the turning goes to the Spitfire, dive and zoom goes to the 190. Its a closer match than it currently is in game where the 190 is faster at all altitudes, climbs better, dives speed a bigger margin than it should be. Currently its a mismatch.


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#39 Jorma_Sarvanto

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

Nope, they aren't the Spitfire's have supercharger issues and radiator issues, probably another auto-engine management issue but the LF MK IX for example is loosing too much speed at higher altitudes, climbing a bit too well very low as well then worse higher up.

IIRC the top speed for a Spit Mk XI with a Merlin 66 was around 408 mph at 22,000ft, the Merlin 63 produced the same power as the Merlin 66 but at a slightly higher altitude, so would produce similar speeds.

The A5's top speed was around the same 408 mph at a slightly lower altitude, the were similar in speed with the 190 being faster down low and the Spitfire being faster higher up,

Of course the Spitfire won't match the 190 in dive and zooms, but the Spitfire is under performing in energy retention none the less. With correct FMs and the right model the Spitfire would out climb the 190, the speeds would depend on the altitude, the turning goes to the Spitfire, dive and zoom goes to the 190. Its a closer match than it currently is in game where the 190 is faster at all altitudes, climbs better, dives speed a bigger margin than it should be. Currently its a mismatch.

I'm pretty sure the F outclimbs the A....
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