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#1 Mystletein

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:27 AM

 O_O

 

.30 cal


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#2 FogOfWar1

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:51 AM

..alright...is that a good or bad thing to you?


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#3 builder396

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:20 AM

Probably bad, although I generally use 7.7mm MGs on my A6-based fighters when Im spraying a long range (I use the cannons and MGs seperately) and only use the cannons when im reasonably sure to hit. But even with the 7.7mm MGs I occasionally score enough hits on a plane to take it down even without having to use 20mm cannons, so this thing might still be able to do stuff in battles. Also the MGs are better suited for ground attack than cannons due to their ammo load. 


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#4 Bombastikus

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:42 AM

It's probably better in historical where a little damage can already lead to a crash....

 

But in arcade it is a piece of shiiet imho. Four rifle-calibre machine guns just don't cut it against T7 planes against you are often matched. Heck I pumped a full belt into an mig3 yesterday, had to trail him for 2 minutes before he went down.

 

In short, it is in every regard worse than the MC202 at T4.......and this plane was already notorious for it's low firepower.

 

Heck, this thing has lower firepower than russian RESERVE PLANES.........now I don't really care since I am long past T5 but this thing should be at T2-3 fighting Hurricanes and Spit I, imho.


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#5 RoscoRSA

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:03 PM

Nope, the E-1 is actually very good, can turn fight with the best. Admittedly it does take longer to get a kill, BUT I feel it performs better than the E-3 with those utterly useless cannons.


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#6 chilloutrichi

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:16 PM

E1 is useless in Tier 5 or 4.

I dont know why a lagg3 is in tier3 (with 20mm and 12,7mm cannon) , but the E1 is in Tier5 :dntknw:


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#7 LtnBrito

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:43 PM

It is slightly over tiered, but it's not a bad plane at all. Like someone pointed out already, it should be dropped 1 or even 2 tiers.


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#8 ThorinGR

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:01 PM

Yes wrong spot in the tree for it... should fight early spits and I-16 if we go historical... I still think when all the Bf-109 versions come in game tiering will be readjusted and be both more fair and more historical


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#9 ArcadePlus

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:01 PM

E1 is useless in Tier 5 or 4.

I dont know why a lagg3 is in tier3 (with 20mm and 12,7mm cannon) , but the E1 is in Tier5 :dntknw:

Laggs cant climb, cant turn, they're ugly, they're laggs. Thats why.


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#10 chilloutrichi

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:00 PM

Laggs cant climb, cant turn, they're ugly, they're laggs. Thats why.

 

But the have way more firepower, and i get far more kills with it, even in tier 4-5


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#11 captgeo

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:04 PM

thread was about the Bf 109, not about Lagg's, keep on topic, but anyway, this new 109 is not bad at all.....so far


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#12 Phoenixflieger

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:29 PM

It was important to get another fighter for Germany at tier 4 - 5 to send the much more crappier Italian planes of tier 3 (CR.40/42) to holidays (if you want to focus on fighters not bombers in your rooster).

 

 

Talking about Its performance or its tier ...I am not going to bash the Russian planes (this time), too obvious...  :Ps

There is a similar discussion somewhere else in this forum (battle of Britain event) about tiering and I want to introduce the Hurricane MK IIb as an example in comparison.

Yes, the Hurricane is - and was - the better plane than the BF 109 E-1 for a very simple reason: The MK II b was released almost two years later than the BF 109 E-1 in 1941! (The E-1 in 1939)
The question shouldn't be about why the BF 109 is tier 5 - which basically would be ok - , but why a superior plane like the Hurricane MK IIb - that saw service almost two years later - is on a lower tier than the BF 109...

By what standard Gaijin tiers planes? Historically? Performance-dependent? The Hurricane MK IIb is not a tier 3 plane by by either standard (and it's by far not the only example).


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#13 Mystletein

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:34 PM

A little Bit over Tiered... Compare to Tier tier 4 with 20mm FFF cannon O_O


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#14 suicidal_godot

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:08 PM

[...]

By what standard Gaijin tiers planes? Historically? Performance-dependent? The Hurricane MK IIb is not a tier 3 plane by by either standard (and it's by far not the only example).

 

IMHO roughly by gunpower - with special exempt for Russian supremacy and commiserating exceptions for poor Imperial Origami Samurai Airforce...

 

0-1 ---  7-8mm +a few first .50cals

2-3 --- many 7-8mm and/or .50cals, but s.a.

4-5 --- weaker 20mm cannons (i.e. low RoF, great scatter,...) or better .50cals

6-7 --- stronger 20mm or even more .50cals, and/or first 37mm also higher plane speed.

8-9 --- better flight characteristics, higher speed, all armaments

10+ --- ranking according to flight performance in focus, some ranking along the "more 20mm cannons - higher rank)

17+ --- jets

 

Basic (observable) rules for single fighters. Heavies get access to bigger punches earlier. Russians too.

 

Historical? LOL. Rank 3 LaGG: first flight january 1941. Bf 109 E First flight 1937, first combat use 1938 in spain, German service introduction early 1939...


Edited by suicidal_godot, 27 September 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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#15 Kingoberv

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:46 PM

I flew it in 1 mission and played carefully with BnZ tactics. Didnt work all that well for that ended up getting 4 kill assists and 2 kills by pecking away. Even while zoomed on wings of spitfires it took awhile to down them. Possible hit detection issues?? I see rounds bouncing off the wings but getting no credit for hits. Anyway, the big plus is how it turns. Combat flaps in a dive can stay right with a spitfire for the most part, although not how I would generally fly a 109, it works with this one. I will keep playing and get it unlocked before I give it more thought. 


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#16 Zhaituki

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:52 PM

It is really great plane in HB atleast, dunno about AB since i prefer big guns in AB.


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#17 ledhed14

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:55 PM

Hey My Typhoon has .30 cals and its in tier seven last I looked . Ok so its LOTS of .30 cals ..but still when I check other tier fives I see..ummmm your RIGHT it sucks ..lol..where the other fighters with only .30 ??

 

 You sure they didn't sneak a 20 mm in the nose like it HAD  ? and used the .30 to adjust aim for cannon as was done ?

 

 

 

 Huge point not to be overlooked .

 


Historical? LOL. Rank 3 LaGG: first flight january 1941. Bf 109 E First flight 1937, first combat use 1938 in spain, German service introduction early 1939...

 

 But why bother balance a tier when you use MM to bork it up by mixing Bi-planes and early Fighters against said Lagg and worse ?

 

 The tiers make little sense ok . I will accept that .

 But MM makes even less , G50 vs Aircobra is always a laugh.


Edited by ledhed14, 27 September 2013 - 05:59 PM.

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#18 Mystletein

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:14 PM

30 cal of british is different from German

 

If you see the Bullet Projectile

 

Well Majority want this plane at Tier 2-3

 

Hope Devs may consider


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#19 Phoenixflieger

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

A little Bit over Tiered... Compare to Tier tier 4 with 20mm FFF cannon O_O

 

 

Depends what your reference setting is ... and if you tier by historical commissioning or performance or a mix of both.

 

I compare to the 'meridian' BF 109 E-3 which was in service in late 1939 at the start of the war. It is tier 6 so earlier birds should be lower tiers, later planes higher tiers, then comes some finetuning if the plane was particularly capable (or not, like the Italian birds...) and increase or decrease the final tier. Based on the chronology within Germany tier 5 for the 109 E-1 is fine.

 

The problem is the comparison to other countries: The Spitfire MK IIs saw service in late 1940 - 1 year after the BF 109 E-3 - yet it is tier 5 & 6 instead of tier 7 & 8 ... I guess no-one doubts that it is a capable plane, so why has the Spitfire MK II such a low tier?


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#20 anyuser

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:17 PM

109E is not an BnZ Fighter. 109E and F are energyfighters.

And the E1 works very good. Just played today and allready got 7 kills with it. 4 in one match, 3 in an other. 3 of that kills where bombers. They took a little bit longer. But after the first seconds they where mostly out of action (killed gunners, damaged flaps).

And i can kill fighters with it in one or two burst, like i did with a hurri today. The other fighters didn't took that much more. The guns fire way faster then the 7mm of the brits. Atm you will do the same damage as 6 brownings I think. It should  like 9 afaik (500 bpm for the spit brownings, 1080bpm for the MG17).

 

For the tiering

 

Axis = Tier +2

Allis = Tier +/-0 (mostly)
mother russia = Tier -2

 

Some planes are well tierd, some not.


Edited by anyuser, 27 September 2013 - 06:19 PM.

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