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How to use a Joystick


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#1 Slartibartf83252

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:12 AM

I'm just getting started on this game and after reading the blogs and watching entirely too many YouTube clips I've really been expecting big things, but I'm sad to say I've been sorely underwhelmed.

 

I have both a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick and a CH Eclipse Flight Yoke and have elected to start with the joystick because it is easier to throw around.  Being the veteran of the odd flight-sim (not a guru by any stretch but never the less experienced) I decided to opt for "Realistic controls".  I simply couldn't make it through the tutorials so switched to Mouse-Aim to get through then went back to the stick to fly "Historic Battles", but I just can't get it together.

 

I'm slogging away on the Single Missions Offline as I don't want to interfere with other peoples games while I work things out.  After unceremoniously bumbling my way through the "Night Fall" mission I progress to "Cossac Village Krymskaya" but just can't make any head way at all.  I spend a long time flying my little plane to the yellow target at 10,000', then climb to 15,000' - 20,000' waiting for the Ju88's them spend the rest of the game either spinning out of control or being shot to pieces.  I have read many posts about "Boom and Zoom" and other fighter tactics and watched many YouTube clips of people carrying out these manoeuvres (admittedly all using Mouse-Aim) but when ever I attempt anything like what I see my plane breaks into a spin.  Once in a spin I push the nose down and input full rudder to arrest the spin and eventually pull out, by which time there is usually a bogie on my tail that I am utterly unable to shake as I can only do the gentlest of turns lest I induce another spin.  And this is how it continues all the way to the ground; either constantly being shot at by the enemy or plummeting headlong to the ground in a spin.  What gives?  I then get re-spawned and it all begins again.  It really sucks.  Just about the only fun I can have in this game is hugging the ground flying contours, which gets pretty plain.  How do you guys manage to work out what to do?

 

 


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#2 Karaya_one

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:28 AM

I have the same Joystick, (great quality, sheet durability, my second one broke in 3 months, and I am awaiting repairs).

 

You might need some practice, and need to fiddle with Joystick settings. Also, use Full Aircraft Controls, that way you get a more immersive handle on the game and also get engine management as an option.

 

So, here's my joystick setup.

Setup:

Roll:

Sensitivity full

Multiplier 1

Nonlinearity 1

Deadzone 0

Correction 0

 

Pitch

Sensitivity Full

Multiplier 1

Nonlinearity 1.6

Deadzone 0

Correction 0

 

Yaw:

sensitivity 3 bars from full.

Multiplier 1

Nonlinearity: 2

Deadzone 0.03 (so that slight rolls dont kick in the yaw too much, coupled with the 2 nonlinearity, it gives good precision)

Correction 0

 

There you have it.

 

Hope it helps.


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#3 iffy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

Each plane it seems has it's own 'multiplier' setting (in controls, then double click the pitch axis) that works well without sending the plane into a spin/snaproll the moment you put any stress through the airframe.

 

 

Try:

Me410 = 0.9

Spifires = 0.7

Bf109 = 0.7

Typhoon = 1.0

Airacobra = 0.6

Do217 = 0.9

Yaks = 0.9

 

Or if there's a specific plane you are having trouble with, try lowering that multiplier until you get buffeting, but not an instant spin. It's important to balance control authority with stability for each plane.

Good luck out there!

 

Edit: Devil you know that advanced engine controls work on 'realistic'?

I'm not savvy enough to control all those variables in combat, but on the way there I open the rad, drop prop pitch a tad and keep temps down. Then I switch to auto engine control when I spot the enemy.


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#4 Gasboy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

Yeah, dug out my Logitech Wingman Force 3D out of it's box.  I can take off, fly, and land.  Just don't ask me to strafe ground targets. XD


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#5 Karaya_one

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:54 AM

I did not know that iffy. CEM is possible in realistic control?

 

I just posted the general setup.

 

For individual planes:

Multipliers

109s: 1

190s:0.9

p39: 0.6-0.8 (depending on how gentle you are with the stick)

Typhoon:1

All the rest: 1


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#6 iffy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

Ah cool those multipliers will work better for him as they are for the same stick. :)

 

If you guys keep killing Logitech Extremes (it seems they last about 2 months for everyone), have you thought about a t1600? Hall effect sensors don't wear out, and as far as I know it uses exactly the same ones as on the warthog. And you can also use T.A.R.G.E.T to set curves and macros which is easily the best joystick software at the mo.


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#7 Karaya_one

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

Ik, I am thinking of getting it soon.

T16000 looks like the best $50 stick on paper.


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#8 Slartibartf83252

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

Thanks Devilonearth.

 

I have copied your settings but still have the same problem. :(

 

I have been flying about with Simplified controls though and this has at least fixed my constant spin problems, but I still don't know what on earth I am doing up there.

Are there any videos/tutorials out there that show what a successful battle looks like with a joystick?  Or would it be possible for someone here to post a replay of a successful "Cossac Village Krymskaya".  At the moment what I'm doing is completely fruitless.  I could post a video but it's pretty dull.  It's just me flying about with no idea what's going on getting shot at till I die, rince repeat :s


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#9 MonstaErin

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

Slartibartfast, I'm thinking that many of your problems will be down to trying to turn too tightly with too little speed.  With a joystick I find that I have to keep a sustained speed above 300kph (preferably higher) in most planes if I want to turn half decent and not stall/spin out.  Most of the time when I fight I probably only give about 15-20% movement on the elevator otherwise it can cause you to go in to a spin, some planes and in situations you can apply full elevator but you have to watch what you are doing.  Bare in mind some planes are actually working well with the joystick, whilst others are very hard to control, so maybe try using a different plane?

 

Just be gentle, no sudden application of full rudder/pitch and maintaining a higher airspeed will help keep you in the air and be more stable.  Mainly it's down to practice and knowing how to fly each plane.


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#10 Karaya_one

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

Yes, you cant turn to the fullest with the most elevator. elevator deflection needs to be controlled and stable. Dont do very High AoA stuff, or stuff with low speed.


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#11 Slartibartf83252

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:41 PM

Cool, thanks for that.

I had been trying to keep my plane above 200km/h but I will work on maintaining 300+ and see how that goes.

Since switching to "Simplified controls" my spinning problem has been resolved.  It's a bit of a cop out I know but I'm just trying to get my head around the game first, then I'll up the realism again.

 

As to the general objective of the game though I'm still pretty much stumped.  How did you guys get up to speed?  Did you start off playing Mouse-Aim then progress to Joystick after you gained a few levels or did you tough it out HOTAS from the beginning?   I'm playing this game on a laptop and don't actually have a mouse.  To pass the tutorial I played Mouse-Aim using the laptops track-pad but doing full missions with the track-pad seems a bit much.  I could of course go out a just buy a cheep mouse but I would prefer to keep with the stick if possible.  Is that how you guys learnt?

 

In terms of progressing with the missions did you guys do the tutorial then work on the single missions, doing "Night Fall" then "Cossac Village Krymskaya" or did you jump straight into MMO games?

 

I'm really wanting to get into this game properly but the learning curve is more of a wall than a curve for me at the moment.  In fact I'm kind of surprised anyone would make it through what I've been banging my head against so I'm thinking there must be an easier way.

 

Also, has anyone been able to make it through the tutorial with a stick?  I've gone back and attempted the tutorial a few times with the extra skills I've picked up but still, not a sausage.  In fact it seems like it would scarcely be possible.  Has anyone manage to do it with a stick?

 

 

All the best,

Slarti.


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#12 Karaya_one

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:54 PM

Tutorial is possible with stick (I think they are in arcade settings though, idk)

 

Also, air combat is complex. Too many variables, 3 dimensions to move through. You need to know your plane and it's limits, and then the opponent.

 

I never used mouseaim from the start. Full aircraft controls from the start, though with only a keyboard/no mouse.

 

And actual games and getting experience is the only way to get better. You may suck at first, but slowly you get a handle on things, and you knowledge of ACM and Planes and Tactics will only increase with time and experience. Good luck and happy hunting.


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#13 _OddBall_

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:20 PM

Flaps lowers your stall speed, use combat flaps or more if she starts to shutter. Use your rudder while turning but beware some planes don't like rudder.
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#14 Blueeyes

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:47 PM

I just purchased a joystick myself and had a hell of a time aiming at anything with it, I was able to complete the combat tutorial with the joystick but it took 6 tries, it seems that mouse aim and joystick aim are completly different.  For me to complete it, I ignored the target circle, raised my nose a smidge and loaded the drones with both cannon and mg fire at 250 meters.

 

I haven't had a lot of time to practice since it's a birthday present and I wasn't supposed to be playing with it until this Tuesday (when I officially get it) lol but I can see that there will be a tremendous learning curve between mouse and joystick flight.


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#15 bull363

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:00 PM

I can t remember the anme, nor do i have a link, but i read an article about how to set up you r stick here on the forums, and it has increased my precision A TON.

 

ok. All sensitivity bars to zero.

 

"But bull, this is madness!"

 

Madness you say? Well here's how it works.

 

You need to play around with the nonlinearity. The effect is hard to explain, but it makes you nearly as precise as a mouse-aimer, but with maneouvrebility of a stick.

 

P.S. i have a tiny bit of sensitivity so that i move a bit quicker. its all up to personal preference.


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#16 Slartibartf83252

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

Dang!

I typed out a long and detailed reply to you all but the cord got knocked out of my laptop and I lost it all. Grrrr.

 

In short thank you all and I'm slowly getting it together.

I have now made it through every tutorial on "Full Aircraft Controls" and progressing slowly.

 

 

 

Man, I know this is in Beta but they really need to look at the experience for new users.  I've spent 3 full days on this, watched and re-watched many hours of YouTube instruction, consulted the community on this forum several times and after the better part of 100 attempts can now finally make it through the tutorial!!!

Sheesh, I don't know that there are that many that would bother.


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#17 iffy

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:08 PM

Not many do bother, hence the lack of players in FRB.

You're be well set to online now though then :)
It's good practice to set up some custom missions with a load of biplanes to shoot. Gunnery is really hard!

Good luck out there Slartibartfast, watch out for Vogons! (Chaikas) :salute:


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#18 MioAkiyama

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:10 PM

Since I am getting a Joystick soon I would love some advice too


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#19 Slartibartf83252

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:43 PM

Since I am getting a Joystick soon I would love some advice too

I'm probably the last to give advice but the big thing that finally let me get through the tutorial was cranking the "Nonlinearity" on the rudder.

 

Tapping the rudder seems to make the plane oscillate quite a bit.  By really dialling up the nonlinearity I found I was finally able to coax the recital over the target with out inducing oscillation.  With the rudder input "Linear" there was no way I could touch that rudder peddle without causing the plane to shake it's head.

 

Oh, and there is this guide in the "Wiki (Beta)" which mentions this video.

(I suspect this could well be what Bull was referring to above)


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