Jump to content


Photo

Why does this game HATE joystick users?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1335 replies to this topic

#1 Dego_Locc

Dego_Locc

    Pilot officer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 579
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:10 PM

*
POPULAR

Why are we punished and inferior?

 

Evidence:

 

 

and....

 

 

 

 

 

Why? 

 

I honestly feel I am being punished for using a joystick, I personally attempt to fly with a logitech extreme 3d pro, but from what I have read and the friends of mine who use different joysticks it seems ALL of us struggle to aim. I have been playing around with the joystick settings for about 8 months in this game for nothing but unsatisfactory results, and to be honest I haven't played the game in over a month because joystick flight in this game is a joke, there is way too much waggle when aiming, and I feel this game is made only for mouseaim users, if that is the case, then just acknowledge it and tell us, so that we can all give up on Warthunder and move on to another game. It ain't my stick, and it aint just me, my joystick works fine in every other flight sim I play, but this game seems to hate joysticks. Aside from that I love the game, but I am not going to play a flight sim with a mouse and keyboard because that isn't fun for me in the slightest. I have tried it and it angers me how EASY it is to shoot someone down with a mouse.

 

Again, I've been testing this game since last summer, and I have tried EVERYTHING in the settings to get my logitech extreme 3d pro to work near as good as mouse aim, all to no avail, and unsatisfactory results. So will this ever be addressed or should I find another game to play?

 

A straight forward honest answer would be appreciated.

 

 

Edit:

 

Nearing 200 posts, and almost 6000 views, I believe we DESERVE acknowledgement and an answer from a developer please.

 

Is the nose wobble when using joysticks to aim EVER going to be addressed? Will joysticks ever fly in this game like they do in Wings of Prey?

 

 

 

*****************************************************************************************************************************************

 

 

Edit #2 UPDATE:

 

I would like to thank Borisych for acknowledging the joystick input issue. And sounds good, can't wait to see some changes for myself.


  • 86

ger1.pngdegolocc2.gif


#2 Warpig777

Warpig777

    Fighter Jock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,376
  • 148 Thanks
3043
-A01- Valkyries

Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

Agree with the OP all the way! We are being hindered for using controls that are designed for aviation, this is not right. No mouse user should ever have more control of his aircraft than a flight stick user. A mouse was designed for clicking windows, a flight stick was designed to fly airplanes.

 

I understand this game was designed to bring in entry level players. That doesn't mean we should be cannon fodder for them with their deadly precision mouse weapons....


  • 28

P9M2BYl.png


#3 DiscorderlyChaos

DiscorderlyChaos

    Forum Special Task Force

  • Senior Forum Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,019
  • 14 Thanks
1304
=MOD= Thunder SnailS

Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

Arcade joystick is really hard, in HB and FRB it's shows


  • 9

1_zps2e9d177d.jpg2_zps16518d6b.jpg3_zpsfa86f162.jpg
 
 
Maniacal best sig maker, ever.


#4 DiscorderlyChaos

DiscorderlyChaos

    Forum Special Task Force

  • Senior Forum Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,019
  • 14 Thanks
1304
=MOD= Thunder SnailS

Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

Also not everyone can afford/has joystick or want to use one, you can always use the mouse. 


  • 10

1_zps2e9d177d.jpg2_zps16518d6b.jpg3_zpsfa86f162.jpg
 
 
Maniacal best sig maker, ever.


#5 Dego_Locc

Dego_Locc

    Pilot officer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 579
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

Also not everyone can afford/has joystick or want to use one, you can always use the mouse. 

That's fine, but mouse should at least be on equal playing field to joysticks, not 1000x more uber than them.

 

And to be honest, wether you can afford one or not, a joystick SHOULD be the preferred method of peripheral for a FLIGHT GAME. It's a "no brainer". If we were playing a racing game, and mouse users had an advantage over a guy who went out and bought a steering wheel, peddles, and shifter there would be an uproar on those forums as well. The only gaming genres a mouse and keyboard should be superior in is "point and click games", and first person shooters, NEVER a flight game.

 

But at this point, I'd be more than happy just to have them both equal. Because as it stands, in this game, Joystick is severely "gimped".

 

Some would say, "stick to FRB then" to them I say, this game is all about making money, wether it's unlocking new planes, repairing old ones, or training crews to use newly purchased planes, and FRB is NOT a good place to make money considering that you have to wait in que 10-15 min most times, and it takes another 5-10 to make it to the action, and if you get shot down your repair bill is twice as much as arcade. Don't get me wrong, FRB is something I play for fun, it's my personal favorite mode atm, but it's not very practical for making lions. So us simmers are forced to play arcade only to get shot down easily by mouse aiming Aces who for the most part don't even understand the basics of flight. That is the issue, and like I said above, it's a pretty big one, if you can't relate or see that, then you're just blind to facts.


  • 25

ger1.pngdegolocc2.gif


#6 G2_evilduck

G2_evilduck

    Air commodore

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,003
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

But at this point, I'd be more than happy just to have them both equal. Because as it stands, in this game, Joystick is severely "gimped".

 

Some would say, "stick to FRB then" to them I say, this game is all about making money, wether it's unlocking new planes, repairing old ones, or training crews to use newly purchased planes, and FRB is NOT a good place to make money considering that you have to wait in que 10-15 min most times, and it takes another 5-10 to make it to the action, and if you get shot down your repair bill is twice as much as arcade.

 

I have no troubles with my JS, With model do you have?

 

And FRB are good for making money, I´ll do it, That´s what I play, And I manage to have my High tier planes in air. The trick is to not repair them, but let them repair for free. And the more planes You have the better. So the repair bill is not a problem at all. I only lose one plane, and I Try to stay alive. Rather then go off in flames I break off.


  • 1
Posted ImagePosted Image

#7 Dego_Locc

Dego_Locc

    Pilot officer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 579
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

I have no troubles with my JS, With model do you have?

 

And FRB are good for making money, I´ll do it, That´s what I play, And I manage to have my High tier planes in air. The trick is to not repair them, but let them repair for free. And the more planes You have the better. So the repair bill is not a problem at all. I only lose one plane, and I Try to stay alive. Rather then go off in flames I break off.

I'm using a logitech extreme 3d pro, I am currently about to test someones else preset they were nice enough to link me. I have no real problems with maneuvers, just aiming, the nose of my plane is all over the place when trying to fine tune aiming for the kill. When I try playing with a mouse I have zero bounce or wobble. With the stick however it feels like it fights me the whole way, it's a real drag.

 

As funny as this video is, it's how most of us joystick users feel

 

 

And I can make money in FRB, it's just slower going than arcade, I tend to make more money faster in arcade sadly, even though I get owned by mouse aimers.


  • 18

ger1.pngdegolocc2.gif


#8 IronHat

IronHat

    Aircraftman

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:04 PM

you have to wonder if the difference is due to programming or just the mechanical difference between a mouse and a joystick. At the moment it's a lot easier to have finer aiming with the house then with the joystick but it would be easier to perform maneuver with a stick.


  • 2

#9 aussiejeff

aussiejeff

    Flight lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 915
  • 6 Thanks
4826

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

I have no troubles with my JS, With model do you have?

 

And FRB are good for making money, I´ll do it, That´s what I play, And I manage to have my High tier planes in air. The trick is to not repair them, but let them repair for free. And the more planes You have the better. So the repair bill is not a problem at all. I only lose one plane, and I Try to stay alive. Rather then go off in flames I break off.

Hmmm. You say you have no troubles with your joystick. Lucky you. No doubt you can roflstomp those Arcade Aces anytime then?

 

But then, you say you only fly FRB ("That's what I play")? Well, no wonder your joystick is good for you then. Obviously, there are no mouse aces in FRB to compare with?

 

This game has 3 main MP modes to choose from - Arcade, HB and FRB.

 

So why should joystick users be co-erced into playing FRB only, on the basis that they might be more competitive there?

 

What if some joystick users actually like and prefer the Arcade and HB formats, but are frustrated by the lack of JS yaw damping when aiming? IMO the current situation of the Beta is a form of hardware discrimination.

 

Gaijin could solve this problem overnight if they really wanted to. Just apply the same yaw damping mouse users get to the joystick control option. Or alternatively, remove some of the yaw damping mouse users get - if you believe it's more realistic for a plane's nose to yaw all over the place when adjusting aim. Simple solution?

 

IMO the OP has made a good point that many JS users can relate to. So it's good to know at least one JS user is wrapt with his setup.

 

Happy hunting,

 

aj 


  • 12

#10 aussiejeff

aussiejeff

    Flight lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 915
  • 6 Thanks
4826

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:26 PM

you have to wonder if the difference is due to programming or just the mechanical difference between a mouse and a joystick. At the moment it's a lot easier to have finer aiming with the house then with the joystick but it would be easier to perform maneuver with a stick.

No.

 

The a/c I fly in FSX do not behave like this (ie: un-controllable whiplash nose yaw when adjusting aiming at a point) even when using the same joystick. Therefore it is purely program coding of WT.

 

Yes, there is realistic yaw in FSX (when rapid aileron applied or large rudder input), but it is controllable and damped. It rapidly settles rather than a continuing feedback loop like WT has. I can reduce the effect in WT by turning way down rudder sensitivity and scale. But to do so is to the point where the rudder input is all but useless - cant sideslip or make quick adjustments to aim. So it's a Catch-22.


  • 8

#11 Warpig777

Warpig777

    Fighter Jock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,376
  • 148 Thanks
3043
-A01- Valkyries

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:28 PM

I use a joystick and prefer Arcade because it has a lot more action in it. Plus I'm a joystick rookie, and Arcade is supposed to be an entry level mode for ALL pilots and control apparatuses. 


  • 8

P9M2BYl.png


#12 DenverRalphy

DenverRalphy

    Pilot officer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 578
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:30 PM

you have to wonder if the difference is due to programming or just the mechanical difference between a mouse and a joystick. At the moment it's a lot easier to have finer aiming with the house then with the joystick but it would be easier to perform maneuver with a stick.

It's in the programming. You can be on your enemy's six, within effective gun range, both of you flying level with your cross-hairs lit up red and right on target... then when you pull the trigger, you see your bullets warble around him as your aircraft suddenly starts fishtailing.
  • 8

#13 IronHat

IronHat

    Aircraftman

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:37 PM

If it's programming then they should really change it.

 

No.

 

The a/c I fly in FSX do not behave like this (ie: un-controllable whiplash nose yaw when adjusting aiming at a point) even when using the same joystick. Therefore it is purely program coding of WT.

 

Yes, there is realistic yaw in FSX (when rapid aileron applied or large rudder input), but it is controllable and damped. It rapidly settles rather than a continuing feedback loop like WT has. I can reduce the effect in WT by turning way down rudder sensitivity and scale. But to do so is to the point where the rudder input is all but useless - cant sideslip or make quick adjustments to aim. So it's a Catch-22.

I'm assuming that's in Virtual cockpit or full cockpit. Aiming with a stick in third person is definitely a no go. Aiming with a stick in cockpit is a lot better but it's still not up to third person + mouse.  


  • 0

#14 Mooking

Mooking

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 60
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

Why are we punished and inferior?

 

Why? 

 

Been testing this game since last summer, and I have tried EVERYTHING in the settings to get my logitech extreme 3d pro to work near as good as mouse aim, all to no avail, and unsatisfactory results. So will this ever be addressed or should I find another game to play?

 

A straight forward honest answer would be appreciated.

Agreed,  please just a STRAIGHT answer this question, and no more discussion about the couple of people that have the magic joystick that works.


  • 6

#15 G5_Creepermoss

G5_Creepermoss

    A day late and a dollar short

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,742
  • 11 Thanks
679
[JG2] Jagdgeschwader 2 Richthofen

Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

The folks that have good joystick settings didn't magically stumble into it, they most likely had some issues, and spent some time configuring their specific setup. I know I did. There's a topic on this that helps explain what the different control settings do, you  might have better luck after taking a look?

http://forum.warthun...lers-explained/


  • 3

CreepermossV8_zpsc83f5ca1.png

                                                                                                                                                                                      Former GM/Alpha/Beta/Flight Model Tester


#16 Mooking

Mooking

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 60
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:24 AM

The folks that have good joystick settings didn't magically stumble into it, they most likely had some issues, and spent some time configuring their specific setup. I know I did. There's a topic on this that helps explain what the different control settings do, you  might have better luck after taking a look?

http://forum.warthun...lers-explained/

Look, I am not going to get into an argument, but DegoLocc is correct, the joystick is nerf up . Also, I have been tweaking my joystick settings for months now and am getting a little tired of it. Like I said in older posts, before1.25 patch the joystick was fine.


  • 7

#17 Toothless

Toothless

    Deleted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,142
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:37 AM

Also not everyone can afford/has joystick or want to use one, you can always use the mouse. 

If one can afford computer games he can also afford joystick, entry level js can cost less than normal price game, and definitely less than things like Diabolo 3.

it would be easier to perform maneuver with a stick.

Sure, if you have only one hand...


  • 0

q5jq.png

  Was not privileged enough :(                                                           Even WoWp has better economy...


#18 Dego_Locc

Dego_Locc

    Pilot officer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 579
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

The folks that have good joystick settings didn't magically stumble into it, they most likely had some issues, and spent some time configuring their specific setup. I know I did. There's a topic on this that helps explain what the different control settings do, you  might have better luck after taking a look?

http://forum.warthun...lers-explained/

I have read and tried everything in that thread, and older threads like it. I am not new to flight games, I'm 31 years old, and have a pretty good knowledge of how to calibrate a stick. I like to conisder myself pretty savy when it comes to configuring things, and I understand that some folks "claim" to have no issues with their joystick. But, I have played with every sensitivity, every non linearity option, and NOTHING feels even remotely close to right.

 

I can agree with the above poster that stated before 1.25 things were a bit better, but they were still off even then. But at least then you could use yaw or rudder and steady the plane for a shot that way, but now, post 1.25 it just wobbles all over the place no matter what when trying to fine tune aim at a moving target. I have tried other players who have my same sticks pre control configs, but they all have the same issue, no matter how your settings are, or how easy or gental you are on the stick, it's just a jerky wobbly mess. Any time I do shoot someone down, I feel it's more luck, vs. actual skill and foresight.

 

After 8 months of this nonesense I have come to the conclusion, that it isn't me, nor my stick, but instead something with the game internally. To which I ask the devs, are you aware of this? Are you going to do something about it? I am aware that this game is still in beta, but by now, this should really have been sorted out. I have supported the Devs with over 100 US dollars of my own hard earned money, and I feel at least I could get an explanation of some sort, even a "Yes we are aware of the issue, and we are working on it" would suffice, but alase, NOTHING.

 

Thanks to all who have helped me over the last year trying to get my stick straight, but I honestly feel there is nothing else that can be done on my end to enjoy this game, outside of giving in like most of my simmer friends have done and succumb to flying with a mouse. Which I refuse to play that way because it is not fun for me, and totally kills my immersion. I would have gladly dumped hundreds of dollars a year, for years to come into this game, but I just can't bring myself to play the game anymore because I feel like my pilot in game is intoxicated beyond the abiltiy to fly. It's so frustrating to know how to fly, know what I want my plane to do, but just can't make it do it, unless I use a mouse. And it is just silly. You know there is a problem when most people who have a joystick don't even bother using it in this game because this game is made to play with a mouse, and nothing else.

 

Wings of prey required some in game tweaking to make a joystick work, and with some patience it does, but this game is just impossible to play and do well with a stick, no matter what I have tried.

 

Good luck to all, I'll log back in if I ever hear things change, but I am not going to hold my breath, this game, as awesome as it could be, is targeted towards one type of player sadly, and I am not that type appearently. Bummer.


  • 8

ger1.pngdegolocc2.gif


#19 G2_evilduck

G2_evilduck

    Air commodore

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,003
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:02 AM

Hmmm. You say you have no troubles with your joystick. Lucky you. No doubt you can roflstomp those Arcade Aces anytime then?

 

But then, you say you only fly FRB ("That's what I play")? Well, no wonder your joystick is good for you then. Obviously, there are no mouse aces in FRB to compare with?

 

This game has 3 main MP modes to choose from - Arcade, HB and FRB.

 

So why should joystick users be co-erced into playing FRB only, on the basis that they might be more competitive there?

 

I play FRB because that´s the game mode I prefer, I do play HB sometimes, And Played it alot before we did get FRB, I have no problems in HB either, Arcade, well that I do not play as I don´t like it at all.

 

Sure the JS is not as "sharp" as the mouse, but I often hit what I aim at. And when I miss is mostly because of my shaking hands or to abrupt moves then on the JS itself.


  • 1
Posted ImagePosted Image

#20 _Voodeux_

_Voodeux_

    Officer cadet

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 498
  • 10 Thanks

Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

If one can afford computer games he can also afford joystick, entry level js may cost less than normal price game, and definitely less than things like Diabolo 3.

 

 

Could you get me a line on joystick that you are getting for the exact price you are paying to play WarThunder? Thanks.


  • 3

signature_banner_1_by_koalslaw-d75c02a.j

fuckyourjoystick_by_koalslaw-d73rkjd.png





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users