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Discussion about Aircraft BRs and economy changes in 1.41.29


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#1 White_bada

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:03 AM

Dear players!

 

 

We have revoked battle rating changes and progression rates to previous figures of version 1.41.27.X to allow us to accurately assess the other changes and improvements in thiis update.

Battle rating changes, economy changes and progression rates will be updated during this week and are currently planned to reflect the changes listed in the tables.

 


 

 

 

( Changes are not implemented yet! )


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#2 Stona

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:59 PM

Guys, feel free to discuss those changes here.

Please stay civil and constructive.


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#3 YanderesFTW

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

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NOPE. DO. NOT. WANT.


Edited by YanderesFTW, 22 July 2014 - 03:03 PM.

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#4 Linx6

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

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This is what the players think: http://forum.warthun...d/#entry2600293

 

The system is broken from the core and needs changing.

 

There are even fan made BR systems. That mind a few minor adjustments would work well in game:

 

This is the balanced focused one: http://forum.warthun...n/#entry2797676

 

And a historic one: http://forum.warthun...hunder-updated/

 

So here is a little summary to what is wrong with the current system:

 

 The system is statistic based. So it changes according to the average performance of the players in game with a specific plane. The problem is some nations are A: bound to be picked first by the majority(more new players= less skill in that nation) and B: they are bound to have a bigger player base( more people means the skill of the few affects it less and vice versa). To add to it some planes are harder to learn to use for example a P47 is harder to learn then an A6M2. So the P47 will have a lower BR as US gets more new players and has more players over all and the plane is harder to fly while the A6M2 is easy to learn and will be played by more experienced players on average and will have a larger effect do to smaller player base. Even if the P47 is superior the A6M2 in both performance and date of introduction.

 

The game has 3 modes: Arcade RB and SB. All 3 want something different.

 

Arcade wants balance. This could be achieved via testing the planes manually.

RB wants balance but still being somewhat historic. This could be achieved with a semi historic BR for the balance that still produces balanced match ups.

SB wants pure historical accuracy. Based of combat records and introduction dates for non combat planes and possible introduction for prototypes.


Edited by Linx6, 22 July 2014 - 04:47 PM.

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#5 InnerCircle

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:04 PM

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I would like to know how those BR are calculated for Real


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#6 Nebelfeuer

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

NOPE. DO. NOT. WANT.

 

This is what the players think: http://forum.warthun...d/#entry2600293

 

The system is broken from the core and needs changing.

^this(at least for RB/SB)


Edited by Nebelfeuer, 22 July 2014 - 03:06 PM.

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#7 Cariocecus

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

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As per usual BR changes have no grasp in actual empirical facts and follow the very same doctrine of thought that has been proven countless times to be bad for the game.

 

A few good changes are completely overshadowed by the massive amount of problems it will create.


I really, really hope that that someday developers will listen to us, this is completely bonkers.


Edited by Cariocecus, 22 July 2014 - 03:06 PM.

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#8 regulator1

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

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i came here from wot to enjoy realism and historical accuracy...the longer i play, the worse it gets


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#9 Bis18marck70

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=LD= Loose Deuce

Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:06 PM

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Same as I had said in the other thread.

 

Just a few samples (RB):

 

A6M2 (12.1939/1940): 3.30 > 3.70

 

Bf 109 F-2 (1940/41: 3.30 (no change)

 

Bf 109 F-4 (1940/41): 4.00 (no change)

 

P-47D (Late 1943 - Altho conversion in game mid-late 1944): 3.70 > 3.30

 

P-38G (1943): 3.70 > 3.30

 

F6F-3 (1943): 3.00 (no change ?)

 

 

You guys know about planes and aerial combat. This balancing does not work. So why does this continue? You know this is not right.

 

A 1944 plane should not face 1940 planes even if the 1944 has a bad combat ratio.

 

This balancing has nothing to do with performance or introduction - this grows, pure and simple, out of a look at combat ratios.

 

Even if you place a P-47 at 2.00, so many will be shot down because the pilots refuse to learn and understand aerial combat.

 

Balance the planes by performance with a link to introduction date.

 

 

 

Some more:

 

FW190 D-12 (late 1944/1945): 6.00 > 6.30

 

Me410 B6/R3: 5.30 > 5.70

 

F8F-1 (1945 but no operation in WWII):  5.70 > 5.30

 

P-51D (1944): 5.00 (no change)

 

 

 

P-39s (1941) US: 3.30 (no change)

 

P-63 A-5 (1943+): 3.30 (no change) 'what'?

 

P-63A-10/C-5: 4.00 (no change)

 

 

When will you stop kicking on those that want to help you and want to see this game succeed?

 

When will you stop appeasing those that want cheap fun, refuse to learn your game and want you to hand them victory on a silver platter?


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#10 ImTheRealJesus

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:06 PM

Really? Didn't the community discuss the exact opposite happening?

About the economy. Fix it. I mean the RP gain.
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#11 Orlunu

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:06 PM

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As a Japanese player, the things that caught my eye most were that the A6M2 now has higher BR than both the P-38 and the P-47 while the Ki-84 otsu shares a BR with the P-80.  The Zero is vastly outclassed by the two it's just gone over, and so long as the P-80 player understands the basics of how jet engines act, there is absolutely nothing that a Ki-84 can do to beat him other than an incredibly lucky long-range deflection shot.


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Supporter of rammable ground units.  (As is almost everyone, silly Gaijin.)  Founder of the Japanese subforum's very own ~Shinten Seiku Tai~.

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#12 _Dzangrizalo_

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:07 PM

It could be that I am wrong about solution, but by me, it is very simple: keep existing BR (before latest patch), and lower spread for MM from 1 to 0.7 (arcade battles).


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#13 Venator_

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:08 PM

The changes for Simulator Battles are appalling...


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#14 ElRazz

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:08 PM

I reject this. 

The system has too many flaws. Build a new one!


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#15 GeneraIKrizmuz

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:09 PM

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Why BR based on player performance? :facepalm:

                 :facepalm:                                   

                                                                                            :facepalm:                                                                                                                                          :facepalm:                                    

 

Please gaijn, play your own game :facepalm:                                                               


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#16 ColonelPete

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:09 PM

Identical planes should have identical BR.
That is a baseline.

Even minor differences like an bigger airfilter should not warrant a difference of BR.
Only real performance differences should count.
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#17 Razor_Kotovsky

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:11 PM

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Surely figuring out how 109 G2 should never ever ever ever get in the same match as a freaking Bearcat is not rocket science.


Edited by _Razor, 22 July 2014 - 03:12 PM.

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#18 Jockulation

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:11 PM

I don't envy the developers.  Seems no matter what they do, the players still whinge, xxxxx and moan.


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#19 Fhantom_chaos

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

oh now A6m2 to 3.7 and f8f decease to 5.3
what's next?
how about let's f8f meet A5M because murican is full of Ace

Edited by Fhantom_chaos, 22 July 2014 - 03:12 PM.

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#20 KirrimK

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

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GG no re  :facepalm: :facepalm:  :facepalm:


Edited by KirrimK, 22 July 2014 - 03:18 PM.

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"It's an American plane.  The Euros and Russians don't like tough American planes.  They are the main player base so WT takes care of that for them.  Did you notice the BR changes?  Several American planes given higher BR's.  Russians and Euros given lower ones."




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