Jump to content


Photo

Fighter Tree Analysis By Nation


264 replies to this topic

#1 MOBB

MOBB

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 849
  • 192 Thanks

Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:42 PM

*
POPULAR

Updated: June 24, 2014

 

German Fighter Tree:                  U.S.A. Fighter Tree:              

      Complete                                    Complete

German fighter tree all.jpg                              USA fighter tree all.jpg

 

 

                            

Japanese Fighter Tree:               British Fighter Tree:

      Complete                                   Complete

Japanese fighter tree all 51314.jpg                              British fighter tree all.jpg

 

 

Russian Fighter Tree:

       Complete

Russian fighter tree all.jpg

 

 

 

Overall Test Parameters are done with:

  • IAS (indicated airspeed)
  • Auto Engine Management
  • Only fully upgraded aircraft tested
  • Realistic controls with a Logitech 3dpro flight stick. 
  • 30 minutes of fuel/limited ammo fuel and clean load outs, no gun pods or bombs.
  • The following maps using test flight then mission editor as follows (regular test flight maps and reference aircraft load outs are bugged so I don't use them): 

Germany/USA/British: Battle over Ruhr/ Essen 

USSR:  Battle over Berlin/ Stahndorf

Japan:  Battle of Port Moreseby/ Papua New Guinea north-east

 

 

 

Flight test criteria are as follows:

 

Max Dive speed:

Just as it sounds, the aircraft is flown from 6000m in a dive until the wings fall off, the IAS is then recordeded


Vertical Stall Speed:

This is the lowest speed when pointed straight up (90 degrees),without flaps, that the aircraft can still use the elevator effectively.


Minimum Loop Speed:

This is the minimum airspeed needed in level flight to complete a loop, without flaps, any less and you will stall in the vertical.


Minimum Turn Speed

This is the minimum airspeed, without flaps, needed to sustain a turn in the horizontal without gaining / losing altitude or stalling.  I decided not to use turn time because it does not give the pilot a specific airspeed for turning without stalling.  in comparison, a minimum airspeed tells you how slow you can go and when compared to other aircraft which one turns better at low speed.


Minimum Airspeed: 

This is the minimum airspeed the aircraft can fly, without flaps,  without stalling.  This is your minimum take off speed, and minimum landing speed without flaps.  this is a very usefull number to have especially if your landing badly damaged. since sometimes you wont have flaps or not flaps on both wings.


MAX Temperature:

This is the max temperature your coolant can get before your radiator opens which slows down the aircraft significantly.  when using wep in the max speed in level flight I would feather the WEP so I would stay at the maximum speed while staying only 1 degree under the max temp which would trigger opening the radiator/overheating the engine.

Some final notes on how each analysis was done.  all aircraft were flown using a stick with realistic controls.  I did not use simple because of the instructor and I did not use full real because it is simply exhausting to fly for prolonged periods of time fighting torque ect.
as for test settings, all aircraft are set to reference settings with no extra ordinance (bombs) or gunnpods... clean load outs only, with 30 min of fuel or the next lowest if 30 minutes isn't available (ie 45min).

 

 

Closing notes/FAQs:

 

This analysis is intended for Realistic Battles.  It's great if this data applies to AB and SB but it has not been tested for those game modes. 

 

I used IAS (indicated airspeed) in all the tests instead of true airspeed for one major reason.  with IAS, if you see your are flying at 450 kph at 6000 meters that is what the airflow over your wings is traveling at, so if you try to do a loop, you will succeed.  now with True airspeed, think of it as how fast your are going at sea level regardless of altitude, but the problem is the air is thinner at 6000m so even though it shows you going 450kph the air is thinner and has less effect on your wing so you need to compensate by going faster than 450kph or you will stall.  I find it much simpler to remember one number I can do a said maneuver at than trying to compensate while in a dog fight... the short version is this: if your not using IAS for your flight speed, change it immediately.

 

Another difference is I climb by airspeed and not climbing angle,  climbing by climb angle sets you up to hit a point where you either are not climbing efficiently or you will end up stalling as you climb.  so for example, if it says 270kph, that is approximately the best airspeed to climb at.  raising or lowering the airspeed you climb at does not change the rate of climb very much, we are talking in 3 to 5 seconds to alt in the worst cast scenarios.

 

I've always loved the detailed analysis that reagalan did on Flight models, I did not create this to replace that detailed description.  this is also not meant to replace aircraft data sheets in the slightest.  this is meant to compare apples to apples (and apples to oranges) to give a general idea to the pilot what they are dealing with, and what they can do with said aircraft at a glance very quickly.
with that being said, the paramaters I chose are simple, immediately applicable and most of all useful.  a couple are unconventional but imho much more useful.  I am fully aware I did not include rollrate or energy retention for the simple reason that they are very easily and quickly identifiable for the prior and the latter is something that is difficult to measure but appreciated by more experienced pilots (BNZ). 

 

I welcome any and all to confirm the data, and with that being said, the regular test map and reference aircraft settings are both bugged and will throw off results.  regular tests maps throw in different air temp and starting altitude.  The work around was to use the test flight but then go to the bottom left corner after selecting it and clicking mission editor.  When using mission editor the reference aircraft setting is actually a stock aircraft setting so I used current version fully upgraded as a solution.  The result is the numbers in the analysis match up with RB in game whereas the regular test maps are always off...  if you want an example of this phenomena, test fly the usa p40 on test flight without mission editor.  then fly the same p40 on test flight except select mission editor.  now in the menu select pearl harbor, and any airfield.  do a climb test to 2000 meters on both maps and time it.  there will be a difference of 30 seconds.  all the maps, under overall test parameters, I selected for each country start at the same alt and have the same air temp. 

 

I welcome any and all constructive feedback and outside sources verifying the data :)

 

  • When printed out at 75% of actual size, these charts will fold up four ways and be about the size or smaller than a post card, very useful to have nearby while playing, they are also color coded now across the top to easily identify which card is which by nation.

Attached Thumbnails

  • German fighter tree all.jpg
  • USA fighter tree all.jpg
  • Japanese fighter tree all 51314.jpg
  • British fighter tree all.jpg
  • Russian fighter tree all.jpg

Edited by MOBB, 24 June 2014 - 08:53 PM.

  • 158


#2 Artruis

Artruis

    openly culturist

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,321
  • 584 Thanks
-Style- Killer Style

Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

Someone give this guy a medal... Anda box of beer
  • 18

#3 _Carolus_Rex_

_Carolus_Rex_

    Sergeant

  • Tovarish
  • PipPip
  • 108
  • 1 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:57 AM

Great job! This is really good information! Thumbs up!


  • 1

#4 Wildest

Wildest

    Pilot officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 576
  • 1 Thanks
-T2FTW- Tier Two For The Win

Posted 06 May 2014 - 11:31 AM

very good info ...keep up the good work ...


  • 0

 WT_sig83_zpsd088d2cf.jpg WT_sig133_zps8243c52c.jpg


#5 Shad73

Shad73

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 863
  • 9 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:09 PM

great job !!  :salute:

 

If you have the spreadsheets in google, can you share them ? I have already some other informations I keep track on (sorties / kills / BR's etc) so it would be nice to have all informations in one spreadsheet.


  • 0

#6 narref

narref

    Sergeant

  • Tovarish
  • PipPip
  • 118
  • 5 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:20 PM

Complete and yet simple, awesome work!

Someone just pin this topic over all the pinned topics


  • 0

#7 mindNET

mindNET

    Aircraftman

  • Tovarish
  • Pip
  • 22
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:22 PM

Pin this.


  • 0

#8 RainbowToh

RainbowToh

    The Flying Kitty

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,740
  • 188 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:57 PM

You should include top level speed too.


  • 0

505c12b8483c36c259e51f418416b879.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/user/hippoace <-- Check out my War Thunder vids!


Thank from 1 User:

#9 MOBB

MOBB

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 849
  • 192 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:46 PM

You should include top level speed too.

 

all the level flight speeds are there with and without wep.  are you saying I should highlight the highest speed?  I didn't think it necessary since speed is ias and the fastest speed is almost always the first.  the real purpose of showing the times to alt and the top speed at alt, is when you see a given aircraft takes 45 seconds to get to 1000 meters higher but the previous alt took 1:00 minute... you can see where your engine is more powerful for example take the 109 g2, even though it shows it is going slower it gets to 5000m from 6000m faster than it gets from 4000m to 5000m.  does that make more sense?  im not sure im explaining it right. 

 

On another note, im done with the rest of the U.S. tree.  I'm entering into excel now and will upload it in  a few hours.


  • 5


Thank from 1 User:

#10 RainbowToh

RainbowToh

    The Flying Kitty

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,740
  • 188 Thanks

Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:00 PM

all the level flight speeds are there with and without wep.  are you saying I should highlight the highest speed?  I didn't think it necessary since speed is ias and the fastest speed is almost always the first.  the real purpose of showing the times to alt and the top speed at alt, is when you see a given aircraft takes 45 seconds to get to 1000 meters higher but the previous alt took 1:00 minute... you can see where your engine is more powerful for example take the 109 g2, even though it shows it is going slower it gets to 5000m from 6000m faster than it gets from 4000m to 5000m.  does that make more sense?  im not sure im explaining it right. 

 

On another note, im done with the rest of the U.S. tree.  I'm entering into excel now and will upload it in  a few hours.

 

Oh oops my bad. Had to familiarise myself with layout again haha


  • 0

505c12b8483c36c259e51f418416b879.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/user/hippoace <-- Check out my War Thunder vids!


#11 TG_survivor707

TG_survivor707

    Officer cadet

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 399
  • 10 Thanks
[ThG] Thunder Guns

Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:05 PM

Wheres the box of cookies when you need it? or the thanks OP button???


Edited by TG_survivor707, 06 May 2014 - 08:06 PM.

  • 0

WT_sig707_zps6f1eb83b.jpgnewsig_zps7d881339.png


#12 MOBB

MOBB

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 849
  • 192 Thanks

Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:21 AM

I just finished the U.S. fighter trees including the premium fighters.  enjoy :)  ill update the first post with any updates now and in the future.
 
 
 
 
btw, I made this and the german tree so that if you print it out with borders and fold it 4 ways it will be the size of a post card...
 
also, I was wondering if anyone would be interested in taking on the Russian tree to help speed things up a bit.  I can go over how I get the numbers so fast if it helps.
 
EDIT: actually all the trees are meant to be printed out and be the size of a postcard.  just reduce size to 75% and print on lettersize paper.

Edited by MOBB, 24 June 2014 - 08:54 PM.

  • 10


#13 Ottobon

Ottobon

    no no no no no no no no

  • Young Pioneer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,022
  • 3525 Thanks
-Hans- The Enhansed Squadron

Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:33 AM

Dat P38 climb rate....

 

 

O gawd. 

 

EDIT: actually the whole Naval tree is crazy at low tiers, the F6F nearly climbs with the dreaded P63-A10, holy hell.  F4Us at low tiers have apparently the same performance as the pseudo tier 4 F4U-1c of tier 3. 


Edited by Ottobon, 07 May 2014 - 07:55 AM.

  • 0

O7fUfgg.jpg


#14 MOBB

MOBB

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 849
  • 192 Thanks

Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:16 AM

Dat P38 climb rate....

 

 

O gawd. 

 

EDIT: actually the whole Naval tree is crazy at low tiers, the F6F nearly climbs with the dreaded P63-A10, holy hell.  F4Us at low tiers have apparently the same performance as the pseudo tier 4 F4U-1c of tier 3. 

 

its not in the data but some of the energy retention seems a little off.  look at the xp 50... notice the loop speed... I could be wrong and its very subjective area.  as for the F4Us in general, I agree that they are good performers, but why fly them at tier 4 when you can fly them at a lower tier with the same performance.  the D versions only difference from the A is that it can carry bombs.  Did you notice some of the p39s out perform the p63s in some areas?  that one kind of surprised me.  the bearcats are very similar overall with the 1 having better speed at 2000-3000 meters and the 1b better slightly at higher altitudes, if I have the choice ill take the 1 over the 1b to prevent jet headaches.


Edited by MOBB, 07 May 2014 - 08:23 AM.

  • 2


Thank from 1 User:

#15 SatanHimself

SatanHimself

    Flight lieutenant

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 935
  • 29 Thanks
^666^ THUNDERDEVILS

Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:17 AM

looks like Ta dive speed is nerfed to hell. 


  • 0

#16 kheynom

kheynom

    Blue Plate Special

  • Czech Nerfing Specialist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,176
  • 217 Thanks

Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:27 PM

Really nice work OP.

 

I find it funny that Bearcat rips wings sooner than any other US naval plane including Buffalo.  :dntknw:


  • 0


#17 drukqs11

drukqs11

    Officer cadet

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 316
  • 18 Thanks
=JKBF= BraziliaN JokeR SquadroN

Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:08 PM

gj, give this guy a medal!


  • 0

#18 MOBB

MOBB

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 849
  • 192 Thanks

Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

I'm well underway with japans trees.  I've completed 4 fighters so far,  and just wanted to keep you guys posted.  fyi the n1k2's  the j and the ja are identical in performance.  well back to work... :) 

 

fyi:

I was wondering if anyone wanted to help with this IE the Russian tree.  it would get this whole thing done a lot faster.  I can send whoever the excel spread sheet template and i'd be happy to go through a step by step of how I can get the numbers I get in the fastest most accurate way possible.  Each plane takes me about 35 minutes to test.  some one simply testing dive speed for each aircraft would knock off 5 to 10 minutes of test time per aircraft.


  • 3


Thank from 1 User:

#19 MOBB

MOBB

    Flying officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPipPip
  • 849
  • 192 Thanks

Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:39 PM

just a quick update.  just finished the a6m5 and all its variants, the a6m3 and half way through the a6m2s.  I'll probably post the naval fighter tree tomorrow,  I'm finding strange flight behavior once again in regards to energy retention and stall characteristics...  well, back to work :)


  • 2


Thank from 1 User:

#20 MisteryManQ

MisteryManQ

    Warrant officer

  • Tovarish
  • PipPip
  • 153
  • 7 Thanks
[ZG508] Zerstorergeschwader 508

Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:13 PM

excellent work MOBB

 

btw are you doing this manually (taking off, climbing etc..) or are you using the CDK to spawn planes at a determined altitude? 


  • 1



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users